Brethren: Some discussion on the offense?

[am1640]

people really need to relax, the biggest difference in the Off this season from last season is our defense. We are no longer in a **** shootout every week needing to run 100 plays and score 50 pts just to squeeze out a 4pt win. You want to see what to expect from this offense just go back and look at the first qtr against the best defense in the country (before our coaches decided not to take anymore chances because UF's offense was dog crap) and it's more creativity from an offensive gameplan than we've shown in the other 162 minutes combined. Depending on what happens in the first qtr of the USF game we may not see much in that game either because they'll be able to throttle it down again for another week.

 

[dg151]

We played trash, elite of elite, and then trashy trash, I'm not sure how anyone can draw a conclusion about anything about the offense so far.

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

Fire Kehoe and everything else will fall into place.

 

[prophet305]

I know it's early but 25% of the season is over. The offense seems to be in fairly bad shape, but we've seen some big plays that have helped put points on the board.

I thought Fisch got too cute at times but he did install his own offensive philosophy. He also had proven position coaches to help him along the way. I know folks are split on Kehoe, but it's a burden shared by both offensive coordinators.

It seems Coley likes to roll out the QB to get the TE's involved, in addition to splitting them out wide.A vast majority of his route trees seem to involve pick plays with whoever is lined up in the slot. I know this is nothing new, but Fisch relied more on bunching and it was pretty **** effective for Morris with that kind of route tree and progression.

The Oline gaps seem to be a tad wider and the stretch plays aren't working. I think it's clear the Oline isn't nimble enough to run the stretch effectively. I don't think they're nimble enough to tighten the splits and run counters but it doesn't look like it's going to be attempted much.

There also seems to be some type of addiction to losing yardage on the ground. So, I looked up the first three games from 2012 for comparison.

I hope it's fair to say @BC @KSU and BCC versus FAU, UF and SSU with 2012s first 3 games being a tougher slate to open with. Anyway, without digging too much I wanted to see how many rushing attempts resulted in negative yardage. I also wanted to see how poorly the 2012 team performed in the 4th qtr, only because of how poor this offense has performed in the same.

Rushing attempts for negative yardage (strictly rushing, no sacks or passing attempts)

2012 = 5

2013 = 24

Rushing attempts for no gain or 1 yrd (same as above and not resulting in score or end of half/game)

2012 = 10

2013 = 10

Curious about 4th qtr production and I know SSU sucks.
4th qtr TOP Yrds Points

2012: 14:57 183 31

2013: 19:13 81 7
4 yrd TD drive...TY Tyriq



I know folks have been harping on it, but are most folks confident they right the offensive ship? They've needed 4th qtr success just to become bowl eligible the past 2 yrs, they'll need it this yr to move beyond that.

I agree with a lot of the assessment but to say the offense is in trouble is tomfoolery. Now they can always get better of course but I think it is still a very effective unit that will become more so as Coley gets more used to play calling. He is a great game planner but you didn't always see proper adjustments through out the game.

 

[Gables Cane]

Fire Kehoe and everything else will fall into place.

Why Kehoe? Why does Coley get a free pass? Fisch and Kehoe showed continuous improvement.

 

[zone3cane]

Fire Kehoe and everything else will fall into place.

Why Kehoe? Why does Coley get a free pass? Fisch and Kehoe showed continuous improvement.

lol why does Coley get a free pass??... how about b/c he's not the problem w/ this offense. The only problem w/ this offense is consistency w/ the run blocking other then that the offense is moving forward positively just as expected for a first year coordinator.

I dont think Kehoe should be fired right now but he does need to readjust how he wants our O-line to play b/c the zone blocking doesnt seem to work consistently enough w/ this o-line.

 

[Gables Cane]

Fire Kehoe and everything else will fall into place.

Fire Kehoe and everything else will fall into place.

Why Kehoe? Why does Coley get a free pass? Fisch and Kehoe showed continuous improvement.

lol why does Coley get a free pass??... how about b/c he's not the problem w/ this offense. The only problem w/ this offense is consistency w/ the run blocking other then that the offense is moving forward positively just as expected for a first year coordinator.

I dont think Kehoe should be fired right now but he does need to readjust how he wants our O-line to play b/c the zone blocking doesnt seem to work consistently enough w/ this o-line.

LOL...so you believe Coley has zero input on how the o-line blocks? I got news for you...Coley coordinates what Al Golden wants and Kehoe executes that philosophy. I'm not saying Kehoe is perfect but to single him out without a complete understanding of what Al golden wants seems, at best, premature.

 

[zone3cane]

Fire Kehoe and everything else will fall into place.

Fire Kehoe and everything else will fall into place.

Why Kehoe? Why does Coley get a free pass? Fisch and Kehoe showed continuous improvement.

lol why does Coley get a free pass??... how about b/c he's not the problem w/ this offense. The only problem w/ this offense is consistency w/ the run blocking other then that the offense is moving forward positively just as expected for a first year coordinator.

I dont think Kehoe should be fired right now but he does need to readjust how he wants our O-line to play b/c the zone blocking doesnt seem to work consistently enough w/ this o-line.

LOL...so you believe Coley has zero input on how the o-line blocks? I got news for you...Coley coordinates what Al Golden wants and Kehoe executes that philosophy. I'm not saying Kehoe is perfect but to single him out without a complete understanding of what Al golden wants seems, at best, premature.

It is fair to single Kehoe out b/c he has a very talented and veteran O-line that doesnt get a consistent push, and doesnt consistently use the proper technique (coaches words) enough.... those things fall on the O-line coach.

I'm not singling him out to suggest he needs to be fired but he does need to fix the issues.... the thing is this coaching staff knows everything and more about what we act like we know on this board so i know the problems are going to get worked out so i'm not worried about it.

 

[DaU83]

I'm still not a big believer in the coley O. That said, the offense we trotted out against UF for a total of 10 minutes or so seemed effective. Then we decided to run the coker T to not throw away the game, so the book is still out on him.

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

Fire Kehoe and everything else will fall into place.

Fire Kehoe and everything else will fall into place.

Why Kehoe? Why does Coley get a free pass? Fisch and Kehoe showed continuous improvement.

lol why does Coley get a free pass??... how about b/c he's not the problem w/ this offense. The only problem w/ this offense is consistency w/ the run blocking other then that the offense is moving forward positively just as expected for a first year coordinator.

I dont think Kehoe should be fired right now but he does need to readjust how he wants our O-line to play b/c the zone blocking doesnt seem to work consistently enough w/ this o-line.

LOL...so you believe Coley has zero input on how the o-line blocks? I got news for you...Coley coordinates what Al Golden wants and Kehoe executes that philosophy. I'm not saying Kehoe is perfect but to single him out without a complete understanding of what Al golden wants seems, at best, premature.

It is fair to single Kehoe out b/c he has a very talented and veteran O-line that doesnt get a consistent push, and doesnt consistently use the proper technique (coaches words) enough.... those things fall on the O-line coach.

This, plus the fact that we have a larger body of work to judge Kehoe on. His o-lines have consistently underperformed. With Coley all we have to go on is an uneven performance against FAU, a disappointing yet effective performance against a tough UF defense, and the Savannah State game which is difficult to evaluate given the talent mismatch. I'm not exactly enamored with what I've seen from Coley thus far but it's way to early to draw any conclusions.

 

[UMFarArcher]

All I know, is that this zone blocking BS is BS. If we want to get a smaller, faster line, then we may give it a whirl.

But asking these hosses to zone block is friggin' ridiculous - and once again, does NOT play to their size and strength. Let these guys take their man, drive him into the ground or ten yards back, and get on with it.

If I'm asking someone to shoot left-handed, and he simply can't do it, then I need to let him do what feels natural, and shoot right-handed. Why force something that doesn't work?

 

[nyibis]

Which offense are we talking about, the one Williams ran or the one Morris runs?
The one Williams is running seems fluid and has an identity.
The one Morris runs is disjointed and scrambling.
Just my observation but there is certainly a difference.
Is Coley calling it differently for each qb?

 

[zone3cane]

All I know, is that this zone blocking BS is BS. If we want to get a smaller, faster line, then we may give it a whirl.

But asking these hosses to zone block is friggin' ridiculous - and once again, does NOT play to their size and strength. Let these guys take their man, drive him into the ground or ten yards back, and get on with it.

If I'm asking someone to shoot left-handed, and he simply can't do it, then I need to let him do what feels natural, and shoot right-handed. Why force something that doesn't work?

AGREE w/ this 10000%...... This O-line isnt a zone blocking OL, they are a Wisconsin type put a hat on a hat and push your **** in all game offensive line. If our Oline was able to play like that, then we wouldnt have any issues in the run game.

 

[zone3cane]

Which offense are we talking about, the one Williams ran or the one Morris runs?
The one Williams is running seems fluid and has an identity.
The one Morris runs is disjointed and scrambling.
Just my observation but there is certainly a difference.
Is Coley calling it differently for each qb?

clueless smh

 

[capefearcane]

Nothing is perfect, we all have some doubts, some questions and a lot of hope.

The offense has not impressed at this point (Savannah doesn't count). Could be we are holding back some, could be Coley's system. Morris seems off and yes does seem to be looking for the big one on every play and ignoring or not able to "see" what is short and open. Blocking is not springing Duke. Agree with others that we have to block out of the backfield or pull guards or whatever - Duke is never going to blast through holes. One thing Fisch did well was keep the opposing defense guessing...again we might be hiding some plays - but doing a few things that others see on film can also cause a D to hesitate - you don't think everyone last year wasn't doing a double check to see if a Duke end around wasn't really a pass?

The D is obviously better and the gang tackling and getting to the ball has resulted in nice takeaways, still...it would also be good to stop the opponent before the 20, no one really wants to be a red zone specialist on every drive. Do think we are going to see some progress on that especially with Figatron and AQM on 3rd down plays. We gain more experience every game - but it needs to come together by GTECH time.

Special teams - mostly good but some of the field goals have been very close to not being good - kickers lose their mojo after a few misses. We've got a great punter but he is being rushed and needs better protection. As Coley takes over more of the return functions who here is not going to be a little nervous when the ball heads his way or when Duke is running in an open field open to injury as well as long gains.

So yeah the team needs this USF game to get their act together and build confidence - I think they will but then I've been a U fan for many, many, many years so many so that I was a fan before Miami was the first to use the Imperial Death March as our defensive theme. Think we are on the right path, think Golden is the right guy and looking forward to attending more National Championship games.

Trust but Verify - GO CANES

 

[BALDYCHUTES]

Aren't you the same azzhat who negged me for claiming all the slurpers of this offense best settle down?

NEGGED.

You will most likely get slammed for starting this thread but I'll play because I think it's a valid topic to discuss.

I'm glad you mentioned the route tree. To me I think that it's the biggest difference between Coley's offense and coach Fisch's offense. I think coach Fisch's offense suited Morris better and played to his strengths more than the current offense does. I also agree with what you said about bunching I think Morris does a better job the reading that type of progression and that he struggles more reading the field from one side to the other. Of course this is all to my untrained eye so I could be full of crap but that's what it seems like to me so far. I think the offense will be just fine and that Morris will make the adjustment.

I fully understand that SSU is absolutely terrible, but I do believe that Ryan Williams does a better job of executing the entire offense in terms of utilizing all areas of the field in the short and intermediate passing game. While I am by no means suggesting that Williams should supplant Morris based on 1 quarter against a terrible opponent, I can definitely see the progression that he has made in the last year in terms of executing the offense. With Morris we have a talented yet streaky quarterback with a Cannon for an arm that struggles with his timing, rhythm, and accuracy in the short to intermediate passing game unless he is in that groove.

Morris is our guy no question but I would like to see him settled down and show more consistency. It almost seems as though he is pressing. He needs to calm down, let the game come to him and trust his weapons and the design of the offense.

 

[nyibis]

Which offense are we talking about, the one Williams ran or the one Morris runs?
The one Williams is running seems fluid and has an identity.
The one Morris runs is disjointed and scrambling.
Just my observation but there is certainly a difference.
Is Coley calling it differently for each qb?

clueless smh

Brilliant! You make some good points.
I stand corrected.

 

[SFbayCane]

Im with dg51 on this one. We dont have a decent enough data-set to know what our offense is yet. We played two really garbage defenses and perhaps the best defense in the country. We likely wont be able to evaluate our offense until we play Ga Tech and UNC.


For me, Im more concerned with coach Coley's play calling and offensive system than I am Stephen Morris, although Im not as high on Morris as many here. Ive never felt he was anything more than a serviceable backup for an elite caliber team.

 

[canedoit]

Wow, have they corrected things, mad props to Coach Coley and Coach Brennen. The WR's must have really dedicated themselves to correcting things as well. The WR unit is really working well in the route combos and the back shoulder throws on the circus routes are freakin beautiful.

They're rarely running short crossing patterns and whichever game they're waiting for in that respect, it'll be a nightmare to deal with. Waters production has gone down, but it's not because things aren't working...and that's a good thing, because Waters is quality and he'll have his touches/games.

Coach Coley has a good thing going on the perimeter. One could consider it a tendency, but they're sending Duke to the slot on a good deal of the bubbles. They've most likely identified Duke as the best perimeter blocker or best at chopping the inside guy.

In both the GT & USF games, when Duke goes to the slot, the defenses have brought the safety to the hash and 8-10 yards closer to the los. It's really opening the short side of the field up and the passing game has flourished.

When Dorsett has been in the slot, the safety stays deep...and that's what they saw on Hurns 3rd qtr touchdown...So, if you watch the replay, they swapped and Hurns took the slot. I betcha you all knew Hurns was the guy on that 3rd and long also. Just masterful adjustments.

Morris being hobbled is not good, but the offense looks much better with him in the pocket, rather than running those roll outs to the left. Just as we saw against GT, rolling Morris to the right, after the running game has been established is devastating. That was a fourth quarter dagger and Coley is a beast running deep crosses.

Untimely holding calls and fumbles have surfaced, but the team has already shown they can correct areas of concern. If this offense continues down this path, some records may fall. What a improvement, eh?

Mass consumption of crow on my part...I felt it would take longer for a new WR, TE, RB and Coordinator to make it work. Right now, it's chunk play after chunk play...they're rolling, I was wrong and it's impressive.

 

[scrantoncane]

Can't understand why they would ever roll Morris out to the left. It's an unnatural throw and we've had zero success.