Bowden, sanctions and horse****

[OzarCaneSaw]

Amazing that FSU was willing to throw a ******* LEGEND to the wolves for being a loser, in spite of sanctions, when they kicked Bowden to the curb in 2009. They went through roughly the same number of scholarship reductions as us and yet found it within themselves to drop a coach who could not field a winning team. Then somehow Jimbo, who I would argue is not one of the greatest coaches out there, was able to step in and run off 10-4, 9-4 and 12-2 seasons prior to going 14-0 and winning the NatChamp.

This whole notion that we've just got to wait and wait and wait for Golden to win the COASTAL is complete horse****. We're not asking for an ACC title, playoff berth or NatChamp game, just a ******* Coastal title. And he can not get it done. Jimbo wins it all in his fourth year and Golden is stuck at 6-4. Why? Because he only has 82 schollies per year instead of 85? "The Cloud"? Horse****. Because he's not a winner.

 

[whoopingcane]

You mean you have to win games to be a winner?

 

[UMFarArcher]

You mean you have to win games to be a winner?

Them's the rules.

 

[weownfsu]

The idea that you need more than 3-4 years before you can start to see real results at a major program is complete and utter horse ****. One, let's not compare this to Butch Davis's situation, where he had to deal with 34 lost scholarship.

Two, let's look at some of the examples of how top coaches did early in their careers at their new schools. Jim Tressel won a title his second year at Ohio State. Bob Stoops won a title his second year at OU. Urban Meyer won a title his second year at UF. Nick Saban won a title his fourth at LSU. Pete Carroll had USC rolling by his second year. Jimbo Fisher won the ACC in third. Gus Malzahn took Auburn to the NC game in ONE year.

In fact, every national title winning coach during the BCS era has demonstrated very quickly (that is, within 4 years, and usually less) that they are capable of getting their team to play at a high level and win a ****load of games. Does that mean that Golden needed to win the national title by this year? No, but the chances of him ever doing anything of note here are extremely low. In four years, his best season is going to be 9-4. There's a common thread among the coaches who have reached the ultimate goal over the past ~two decades, and Golden doesn't have it. It does not take that long to put together a competent team in college football if you know what you're doing. Golden has proved this year that even when he has the players, he's still a loser.

Yet the Penn State cultists among our fan base will ignore that and be happy with a four loss season.

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

9-4 is Jimbo's worst season, Golden's best.

SMDH

 

[daddacane]

All the aforementioned teams were loaded....Success and Nat Champs came with a coaching change..

 

[pyhooya]

All the aforementioned teams were loaded....Success and Nat Champs came with a coaching change..

Which should happen here. Plenty of talent. Not saying its championship caliber yet but some **** good talent on the roster. Golden needs to leave for this program to move to the next level.

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

All the aforementioned teams were loaded....Success and Nat Champs came with a coaching change..

This years team had the talent to easily win the coastal. Two ACC games remaining and we're out of contention. 0-4 in the 4th year. Would not be tolerated at FSU, Alabama, Florida, Auburn, etc.

 

[weownfsu]

All the aforementioned teams were loaded....Success and Nat Champs came with a coaching change..

This years team had the talent to easily win the coastal. Two ACC games remaining and we're out of contention. 0-4 in the 4th year. Would not be tolerated at FSU, Alabama, Florida, Auburn, etc.

Exactly. People act like "oh, we didn't have the talent to win the national championship right away, so you can't expect to see any results." I mean, that's complete horse****. Like 20 players from the 2011 team played in the NFL--and we went 6-6!

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

All the aforementioned teams were loaded....Success and Nat Champs came with a coaching change..

This years team had the talent to easily win the coastal. Two ACC games remaining and we're out of contention. 0-4 in the 4th year. Would not be tolerated at FSU, Alabama, Florida, Auburn, etc.

Exactly. People act like "oh, we didn't have the talent to win the national championship right away, so you can't expect to see any results." I mean, that's complete horse****. Like 20 players from the 2011 team played in the NFL--and we went 6-6!

:Qft9gEw:

 

[weownfsu]

Furthermore, it's not like we've been this really good team who just couldn't quite get over the hump against the great teams, maybe had a goofy loss here or there to a less talented team while we were in the process of figuring it out, but then put it all together.

We've been competitive against a top team only twice in Al Golden's career. Once was with Randy Shannon's players. The other was this past saturday, when we played a team that has fallen behind in the first half in like 4 of their last 7 games. Besides that, we've gotten absolutely crushed every single time. 40-3. 52-17. 41-14. 36-9.

We've lost to loads of terrible, terrible teams in Golden's tenure. Virginia. Maryland. Boston College. We've lost to teams that are decent but below our talent level by a big margin, like Duke last year and Georgia Tech this year. We can't even beat "good" teams most of the time--2 wins in his career at Miami over teams with 8 or more victories.

Golden has shown NOTHING.

 

[drewm3i]

FSU is win at all costs see crablegs rapist, gf abuser, bike stealer, and hit and run boys.

 

[NVA CANE]

Bobby Bowden never faced clouds though.

 

[Rellyrell]

Tired of golden apologist on this board. here's the facts that no one can dispute:

Fact 1: Under Golden's tenure, we've fielded the worst defensive statistics in the history of the program
Fact 2: Under Golden's tenure, we've controlled on our own destiny 3 out of the last 4 years and found a way to lose to inferior teams. (see losing to GT this year, losing to Duke last year, and losing to UVA in 2012 <<<although we self-imposed a bowl ban, we had a chance to win the ACC Coastal Outright and couldn't.)
Fact 3: He is 14-12 in the ACC
Fact 4: We play in the weakest division in the ACC and we cannot win it, yet Duke (a basketball power) is about to go back to back in winning the same division
Fact 5: Golden still does not have a signature win at Miami and it's year 4
Fact 6: The cloud was a myth created by Golden to justify his 6-6 season here in year 1. USC dealt w/ a real cloud, dang near getting the death penalty, and was still able to field top recruiting classes year after year.
Fact 7: We have been pathelogical underachievers. We possess more talent than everyone outside of FSU and Clemson (both of whom are not in our divison) yet we get beat on the field (dispelling Golden's myth that the lack of talent has been our flaw)
Fact 8: Golden has proven he's not ready for the big stage. When the lights have been solely placed on UM, we have folded (see the losses to UL this year, Nebraska this year, FSU this year, VT last year, FSU last year, UL last year, as most recent examples of losing on Prime Time TV)
Fact 9: Golden is 0-4 against FSU in year 4....the only coach since 83 to possess such a record w/in a four year stretch.
and
Fact 10: Golden has recruited So. Fla poorly, showing love to NJ first, before he shows the amount of love needed in So. Fla.

I still want him to win out, but enough w/ the excuses already. His body of work, alone, has created his own reputation. He doesn't need fans to bash him, his record both on and off the field does all the bashing for him.

 

[wherrera8]

The idea that you need more than 3-4 years before you can start to see real results at a major program is complete and utter horse ****. One, let's not compare this to Butch Davis's situation, where he had to deal with 34 lost scholarship.

Two, let's look at some of the examples of how top coaches did early in their careers at their new schools. Jim Tressel won a title his second year at Ohio State. Bob Stoops won a title his second year at OU. Urban Meyer won a title his second year at UF. Nick Saban won a title his fourth at LSU. Pete Carroll had USC rolling by his second year. Jimbo Fisher won the ACC in third. Gus Malzahn took Auburn to the NC game in ONE year.

In fact, every national title winning coach during the BCS era has demonstrated very quickly (that is, within 4 years, and usually less) that they are capable of getting their team to play at a high level and win a ****load of games. Does that mean that Golden needed to win the national title by this year? No, but the chances of him ever doing anything of note here are extremely low. In four years, his best season is going to be 9-4. There's a common thread among the coaches who have reached the ultimate goal over the past ~two decades, and Golden doesn't have it. It does not take that long to put together a competent team in college football if you know what you're doing. Golden has proved this year that even when he has the players, he's still a loser.

Yet the Penn State cultists among our fan base will ignore that and be happy with a four loss season.

My Freshman year here was Golden's first year. After losing to Virginia on a Thursday night, and walking out of the stadium, my friend asked me how long I would give Golden? I said 4 years! Why? Because every coach had until their first recruiting class leaves. 4 years is all anyone should get to improve a program and achieve its goals.

4 years in, and we are at about the same position as we were 4 years ago. No improvement, despite there being more talent. It's disgusting. The Coastal was well in reach last year and this year. I would be willing to give Golden more time if we had won the Coastal last year and this year, because that is where this program should be. No excuses.

We're not where we should be, therefore it's clear changes need to be made. Why are we the fans, who don't get paid to make these decisions, the ones who see this?

 

[wherrera8]

Tired of golden apologist on this board. here's the facts that no one can dispute:

Fact 1: Under Golden's tenure, we've fielded the worst defensive statistics in the history of the program
Fact 2: Under Golden's tenure, we've controlled on our own destiny 3 out of the last 4 years and found a way to lose to inferior teams. (see losing to GT this year, losing to Duke last year, and losing to UVA in 2012 <<<although we self-imposed a bowl ban, we had a chance to win the ACC Coastal Outright and couldn't.)
Fact 3: He is 14-12 in the ACC
Fact 4: We play in the weakest division in the ACC and we cannot win it, yet Duke (a basketball power) is about to go back to back in winning the same division
Fact 5: Golden still does not have a signature win at Miami and it's year 4
Fact 6: The cloud was a myth created by Golden to justify his 6-6 season here in year 1. USC dealt w/ a real cloud, dang near getting the death penalty, and was still able to field top recruiting classes year after year.
Fact 7: We have been pathelogical underachievers. We possess more talent than everyone outside of FSU and Clemson (both of whom are not in our divison) yet we get beat on the field (dispelling Golden's myth that the lack of talent has been our flaw)
Fact 8: Golden has proven he's not ready for the big stage. When the lights have been solely placed on UM, we have folded (see the losses to UL this year, Nebraska this year, FSU this year, VT last year, FSU last year, UL last year, as most recent examples of losing on Prime Time TV)
Fact 9: Golden is 0-4 against FSU in year 4....the only coach since 83 to possess such a record w/in a four year stretch.
and
Fact 10: Golden has recruited So. Fla poorly, showing love to NJ first, before he shows the amount of love needed in So. Fla.

I still want him to win out, but enough w/ the excuses already. His body of work, alone, has created his own reputation. He doesn't need fans to bash him, his record both on and off the field does all the bashing for him.

And yet we have people disputing facts brother. You nailed it. Case closed.

 

[BoroCane83]

The idea that you need more than 3-4 years before you can start to see real results at a major program is complete and utter horse ****. One, let's not compare this to Butch Davis's situation, where he had to deal with 34 lost scholarship.

Two, let's look at some of the examples of how top coaches did early in their careers at their new schools. Jim Tressel won a title his second year at Ohio State. Bob Stoops won a title his second year at OU. Urban Meyer won a title his second year at UF. Nick Saban won a title his fourth at LSU. Pete Carroll had USC rolling by his second year. Jimbo Fisher won the ACC in third. Gus Malzahn took Auburn to the NC game in ONE year.

In fact, every national title winning coach during the BCS era has demonstrated very quickly (that is, within 4 years, and usually less) that they are capable of getting their team to play at a high level and win a ****load of games. Does that mean that Golden needed to win the national title by this year? No, but the chances of him ever doing anything of note here are extremely low. In four years, his best season is going to be 9-4. There's a common thread among the coaches who have reached the ultimate goal over the past ~two decades, and Golden doesn't have it. It does not take that long to put together a competent team in college football if you know what you're doing. Golden has proved this year that even when he has the players, he's still a loser.

Yet the Penn State cultists among our fan base will ignore that and be happy with a four loss season.

My Freshman year here was Golden's first year. After losing to Virginia on a Thursday night, and walking out of the stadium, my friend asked me how long I would give Golden? I said 4 years! Why? Because every coach had until their first recruiting class leaves. 4 years is all anyone should get to improve a program and achieve its goals.

4 years in, and we are at about the same position as we were 4 years ago. No improvement, despite there being more talent. It's disgusting. The Coastal was well in reach last year and this year. I would be willing to give Golden more time if we had won the Coastal last year and this year, because that is where this program should be. No excuses.

We're not where we should be, therefore it's clear changes need to be made. Why are we the fans, who don't get paid to make these decisions, the ones who see this?

But...Global Warming...and Corporate America.

 

[Canes2082]

Jimbo was running things in Tally before Bowden was gone. I do agree with a lot of the above facts though

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

There are coaches who do more with less. The David Cutcliffes, the Gary Pattersons, etc. Then there are coaches who do less with more. Golden is one of them. He's a poor man's Mark Richt.

And he's an ******* to boot. I challenge anyone of his fan boys to show me a single quote where he places blame on his coaching for any one of our losses. The only one I can recall him ever coming close to doing so was our offense vs Louisville. But even then it seemed to be more Kaaya's fault he was a freshman more than not seeing going into the game that maybe Kaaya could have handled more.

The blame for every loss has ALL come down on the players, PUBLICLY, from their head coach. That's just wrong. A head coach is supposed to deflect blame, not PUBLICLY direct it.

 

[DaU83]

Amazing that FSU was willing to throw a ****ing LEGEND to the wolves for being a loser, in spite of sanctions, when they kicked Bowden to the curb in 2009. They went through roughly the same number of scholarship reductions as us and yet found it within themselves to drop a coach who could not field a winning team. Then somehow Jimbo, who I would argue is not one of the greatest coaches out there, was able to step in and run off 10-4, 9-4 and 12-2 seasons prior to going 14-0 and winning the NatChamp.

This whole notion that we've just got to wait and wait and wait for Golden to win the COASTAL is complete horse****. We're not asking for an ACC title, playoff berth or NatChamp game, just a ****ing Coastal title. And he can not get it done. Jimbo wins it all in his fourth year and Golden is stuck at 6-4. Why? Because he only has 82 schollies per year instead of 85? "The Cloud"? Horse****. Because he's not a winner.

the situations aren't really comparable.