Bigger Mistake: Butch or Howard?

bacane

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Ever wonder about the sleepless nights Butch and Howard suffered after slithering out on the Canes? Years later, Howard enjoys statesman-like status in retirement at multiple college programs - Miami, Louisville and FAU - while Butch can't sniff a coaching ob.

Even so, who made the bigger mistake bailing on the program?

Who would be more eager to accept a do-over?

Who got the worst advice from his agent?
 
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Ever wonder about the sleepless nights Butch and Howard suffered after slithering out on the Canes? Years later, Howard enjoys statesman-like status in retirement at multiple college programs - Miami, Louisville and FAU - while Butch can't sniff a coaching ob.

Even so, who made the bigger mistake bailing on the program?

Who would be more eager to accept a do-over?

Who got the worst advice from his agent?
Anyone who willingly packs up and heads to Cleveland under any circumstances got the worst advice.
 
Ever wonder about the sleepless nights Butch and Howard suffered after slithering out on the Canes? Years later, Howard enjoys statesman-like status in retirement at multiple college programs - Miami, Louisville and FAU - while Butch can't sniff a coaching ob.

Even so, who made the bigger mistake bailing on the program?

Who would be more eager to accept a do-over?

Who got the worst advice from his agent?
Anyone who willingly packs up and heads to Cleveland under any circumstances got the worst advice.
That's true. However, going to an established NFL team in an established league sounds like the better bet than leaving a school to join some new football league that no one ever heard of, right after winning a title.
 
Considering Howard never coached a game for the team he left us for, he clearly got the worst advice!

But from a fan perspective, Butch made the bigger mistake.

We didn't suffer for Howard leaving ... We're still suffering from Butch leaving, and that was 15 years ago ...
 
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Most great college coaches want to see if it can translate to the next level. Is a confidence and ego thing. Comes with greatness.

And even 15 yrs ago in Davis' case. CFB was still more of a niche sport. Schools weren't paying coaches more than pro teams plus other fringe benefits like they do now.

As big as the NFL is now, its pussification is going to make CFB even more powerful in itself. CFB is more organic, varying playstyles and leaugues. More exciting etc...

And the kicker... The U don't believe in trickin off to make a coach happy and it shows.

Can't treat all your women like expendable girlfriends and then wonder why u can't find the right wife. (message for the BOT)
 
Howard left, in part, because UM wouldn't cover his son's medical bills as part of his contract.

Wow.
It wasn't the main reason, but it was a factor since the USFL gig would have been a big bump $$. His son was already an adult, so his insurance wouldn't cover it. I wrote about it on the site a couple of years ago. Here's a story about his son's death that I linked to: Howard Schnellenberger's son dies of cancer - TC Palm
 
Howard left, in part, because UM wouldn't cover his son's medical bills as part of his contract.

Not so sure about that version of history. Suspect it was what drives most decisions: power and money.


Schnellenberger, who became head coach and part-owner of the U.S.F.L. team on May 25, was to have been paid more than $3 million over five years and been guaranteed a lifetime annual salary of more than $100,000.


Schnellenberger said he and Weiser had worked out a financial arrangement that would give him time to find a new job.
 
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Butch didn't slither anywhere. UM tried to snake him on his contract.

Any man with a functioning ********s would have done the same.

Quit spreading untruths.
 
Butch didn't slither anywhere. UM tried to snake him on his contract.

Any man with a functioning ********s would have done the same.

Quit spreading untruths.




Sorry, perhaps there's a dispute in the meaning of slithering. But stop with the revisionist history - great coach or not, he and his agent lied till he walked out the door. And yeah, that took functioning ********s.

ESPN.com: GEN - Davis' lies undo years of hard work at UM

As you'd expect, there isn't one of these arguments that is worth a bucket of warm spit. Butch Davis said he'd be staying in Miami as recently as Sunday, while in the midst of a visit with a prized recruit. Not 10 days ago, Davis said, "I will have a new contract, and I will be the coach at Miami next year." On Monday, Davis made known his decision to jump to the Cleveland Browns.

Why bother with the qualifiers? Butch Davis lied like a Watergate co-conspirator. This guy shouldn't be able to turn a corner in a hallway; his nose ought to be getting places 10 minutes ahead of him.

You want qualifiers on Davis? I could give you a fistful. Davis, up until now, has enjoyed a reputation as the man who cleaned up Miami football in the wake of the Dennis Erickson mess. Davis went in there and took his licks, endured the NCAA post-Erickson sanctions and yet returned the Hurricanes to national prominence. He deserves every one of the accolades that have flowed his way over the past couple of years of the turnaround.

Not only that, but the Davis family is going to come out ahead financially on a scale that's dazzling even by fat-money standards. His proposed new contract at Miami -- the one that Davis kept telling university officials was all but done, yet repeatedly failed to finalize -- was to pay him upward of $1.4 million per year. Under the Al Lerner Money Machine program in Cleveland, the coach will more than double that: five years, nearly $15 million.


And all together: So what? At what point does the context outweigh the action? Here is Buck Ortega, quarterback at Miami Gulliver High School and a recruit whom Davis visited on Sunday. Interviewed by the Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel, Ortega quoted Davis as telling him this: "I took this job to be my last one. I'm going to stay until I retire."

Remember, that's Butch Davis talking to a high school kid the day before he accepted the job with the Cleveland Browns. Is there anything in Davis' previous six years at Miami, no matter how salutary, that can possibly turn that lie into the truth?


Nope, this time Butch Davis got the Miami program to within barely a week of National Signing Day, then left the Hurricanes for an NFL job that he repeatedly said he had no interest in. He left behind 18 oral commitments from high school players, several of whom now say they're wavering on Miami as their football program of choice. He left behind a couple of top-flight collegians whom he practically talked out of the NFL draft by saying they'd all stick around for next season and bring home a national championship together.

Whatever Davis is, whatever he has been and whatever he may yet become, he has spent a good portion of the year 2001 telling lies. It doesn't need to be qualified. It is what it is.
 
Butch didn't slither anywhere. UM tried to snake him on his contract.

Any man with a functioning ********s would have done the same.

Quit spreading untruths.




Sorry, perhaps there's a dispute in the meaning of slithering. But stop with the revisionist history - great coach or not, he and his agent lied till he walked out the door. And yeah, that took functioning ********s.

ESPN.com: GEN - Davis' lies undo years of hard work at UM

As you'd expect, there isn't one of these arguments that is worth a bucket of warm spit. Butch Davis said he'd be staying in Miami as recently as Sunday, while in the midst of a visit with a prized recruit. Not 10 days ago, Davis said, "I will have a new contract, and I will be the coach at Miami next year." On Monday, Davis made known his decision to jump to the Cleveland Browns.

Why bother with the qualifiers? Butch Davis lied like a Watergate co-conspirator. This guy shouldn't be able to turn a corner in a hallway; his nose ought to be getting places 10 minutes ahead of him.

You want qualifiers on Davis? I could give you a fistful. Davis, up until now, has enjoyed a reputation as the man who cleaned up Miami football in the wake of the Dennis Erickson mess. Davis went in there and took his licks, endured the NCAA post-Erickson sanctions and yet returned the Hurricanes to national prominence. He deserves every one of the accolades that have flowed his way over the past couple of years of the turnaround.

Not only that, but the Davis family is going to come out ahead financially on a scale that's dazzling even by fat-money standards. His proposed new contract at Miami -- the one that Davis kept telling university officials was all but done, yet repeatedly failed to finalize -- was to pay him upward of $1.4 million per year. Under the Al Lerner Money Machine program in Cleveland, the coach will more than double that: five years, nearly $15 million.


And all together: So what? At what point does the context outweigh the action? Here is Buck Ortega, quarterback at Miami Gulliver High School and a recruit whom Davis visited on Sunday. Interviewed by the Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel, Ortega quoted Davis as telling him this: "I took this job to be my last one. I'm going to stay until I retire."

Remember, that's Butch Davis talking to a high school kid the day before he accepted the job with the Cleveland Browns. Is there anything in Davis' previous six years at Miami, no matter how salutary, that can possibly turn that lie into the truth?


Nope, this time Butch Davis got the Miami program to within barely a week of National Signing Day, then left the Hurricanes for an NFL job that he repeatedly said he had no interest in. He left behind 18 oral commitments from high school players, several of whom now say they're wavering on Miami as their football program of choice. He left behind a couple of top-flight collegians whom he practically talked out of the NFL draft by saying they'd all stick around for next season and bring home a national championship together.

Whatever Davis is, whatever he has been and whatever he may yet become, he has spent a good portion of the year 2001 telling lies. It doesn't need to be qualified. It is what it is.

Well I'll admit you did post half of the story there.

Nice work x.5!
 
Butch didn't slither anywhere. UM tried to snake him on his contract.

Any man with a functioning ********s would have done the same.

Quit spreading untruths.




Sorry, perhaps there's a dispute in the meaning of slithering. But stop with the revisionist history - great coach or not, he and his agent lied till he walked out the door. And yeah, that took functioning ********s.

ESPN.com: GEN - Davis' lies undo years of hard work at UM

As you'd expect, there isn't one of these arguments that is worth a bucket of warm spit. Butch Davis said he'd be staying in Miami as recently as Sunday, while in the midst of a visit with a prized recruit. Not 10 days ago, Davis said, "I will have a new contract, and I will be the coach at Miami next year." On Monday, Davis made known his decision to jump to the Cleveland Browns.

Why bother with the qualifiers? Butch Davis lied like a Watergate co-conspirator. This guy shouldn't be able to turn a corner in a hallway; his nose ought to be getting places 10 minutes ahead of him.

You want qualifiers on Davis? I could give you a fistful. Davis, up until now, has enjoyed a reputation as the man who cleaned up Miami football in the wake of the Dennis Erickson mess. Davis went in there and took his licks, endured the NCAA post-Erickson sanctions and yet returned the Hurricanes to national prominence. He deserves every one of the accolades that have flowed his way over the past couple of years of the turnaround.

Not only that, but the Davis family is going to come out ahead financially on a scale that's dazzling even by fat-money standards. His proposed new contract at Miami -- the one that Davis kept telling university officials was all but done, yet repeatedly failed to finalize -- was to pay him upward of $1.4 million per year. Under the Al Lerner Money Machine program in Cleveland, the coach will more than double that: five years, nearly $15 million.


And all together: So what? At what point does the context outweigh the action? Here is Buck Ortega, quarterback at Miami Gulliver High School and a recruit whom Davis visited on Sunday. Interviewed by the Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel, Ortega quoted Davis as telling him this: "I took this job to be my last one. I'm going to stay until I retire."

Remember, that's Butch Davis talking to a high school kid the day before he accepted the job with the Cleveland Browns. Is there anything in Davis' previous six years at Miami, no matter how salutary, that can possibly turn that lie into the truth?


Nope, this time Butch Davis got the Miami program to within barely a week of National Signing Day, then left the Hurricanes for an NFL job that he repeatedly said he had no interest in. He left behind 18 oral commitments from high school players, several of whom now say they're wavering on Miami as their football program of choice. He left behind a couple of top-flight collegians whom he practically talked out of the NFL draft by saying they'd all stick around for next season and bring home a national championship together.

Whatever Davis is, whatever he has been and whatever he may yet become, he has spent a good portion of the year 2001 telling lies. It doesn't need to be qualified. It is what it is.

Well I'll admit you did post half of the story there.

Nice work x.5!


Not to belabor the point, but appreciate a willingness to deal in facts. Here's an SI piece from back in the day that hammers the same theme . . . and it does touch on UM contract issues.

Butch League Butch Davis left Miami scrambling when he betrayed his players and bolted for a big-money deal with the Browns - SI.com


The eldest among them had heard rumors of their
coach's imminent departure for years, but two days before Miami
played Florida in the Sugar Bowl--by which time he had turned
down offers from Alabama and the NFL-expansion Houston
Texans--Davis had brought the team together in a New Orleans
hotel and assured the players that he was staying. "If I leave
now, that makes me a deadbeat dad, because this is my family,"
he told them. "I want to finish my career right here at Miami."
A few days after Miami's 37-20 victory completed an 11-1 season
and cemented a No. 2 national ranking, he told them, "We're
going to work our asses off in the off-season, harder than we've
worked before. This is going to be an incredible season. We're
going to win the national championship."



"People were real mad," said McKinnie. "Especially the
young guys who have three, four years left. He told us he would
be here."


Not only had he restored the Hurricanes to a
place among the elite, salving the wounds resulting from the 1995
probation that cost Miami a crippling 31 scholarships, but he had
also repeatedly denied interest in leaving for the pros, despite
the widespread assumption by fans and media that the former
Dallas Cowboys assistant lusted after an NFL job. Three days
before the Sugar Bowl, at a time when three NFL teams were
searching for a coach and four more would follow suit, he
responded to a rumor that he was soon to visit with Browns
management by saying, "Don't they have a coach? I'm happy in
South Florida. My family loves it there. I plan to coach at Miami
for a long time."

Davis didn't just issue denials, he sold them.


At a dinner with recruits at the Rusty Pelican on Key Biscayne on
Jan. 20, Davis thanked McKinnie for returning to play next season
after NFL scouts had told him that he'd be taken high in the
first round of the April draft if he left school early. "Winning
a national championship will be the final piece of the puzzle for
you," Davis told McKinnie.


One week later Davis agreed in principle to a five-year, $15.7
million contract with the Browns, bolting Miami nine days before
recruits could sign letters of intent. Davis got a deal from
Cleveland that Miami could never have matched, but he and his
lawyer, Marvin Demoff, insist that the Browns weren't a serious
consideration until the school failed in late January to finalize
a five-year contract extension that had been in negotiation since
November. (After the 2000 season Davis had three years left on a
seven-year, $5.9 million contract.) "I'm thrilled with the
opportunity I have in Cleveland," Davis says, "but if Miami had
gotten the extension done in November, I'd still be the coach at
Miami."

The returning players will draw strength
from a familiar system, a comfort that they will need to soothe
their feelings of betrayal. "I've learned a lot from this week,"
Shockey, the tight end, says. "Don't take anything for granted,
trust nobody. Pretty simple."
 
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Butch didn't slither anywhere. UM tried to snake him on his contract.

Any man with a functioning ********s would have done the same.

Quit spreading untruths.




Sorry, perhaps there's a dispute in the meaning of slithering. But stop with the revisionist history - great coach or not, he and his agent lied till he walked out the door. And yeah, that took functioning ********s.

ESPN.com: GEN - Davis' lies undo years of hard work at UM

As you'd expect, there isn't one of these arguments that is worth a bucket of warm spit. Butch Davis said he'd be staying in Miami as recently as Sunday, while in the midst of a visit with a prized recruit. Not 10 days ago, Davis said, "I will have a new contract, and I will be the coach at Miami next year." On Monday, Davis made known his decision to jump to the Cleveland Browns.

Why bother with the qualifiers? Butch Davis lied like a Watergate co-conspirator. This guy shouldn't be able to turn a corner in a hallway; his nose ought to be getting places 10 minutes ahead of him.

You want qualifiers on Davis? I could give you a fistful. Davis, up until now, has enjoyed a reputation as the man who cleaned up Miami football in the wake of the Dennis Erickson mess. Davis went in there and took his licks, endured the NCAA post-Erickson sanctions and yet returned the Hurricanes to national prominence. He deserves every one of the accolades that have flowed his way over the past couple of years of the turnaround.

Not only that, but the Davis family is going to come out ahead financially on a scale that's dazzling even by fat-money standards. His proposed new contract at Miami -- the one that Davis kept telling university officials was all but done, yet repeatedly failed to finalize -- was to pay him upward of $1.4 million per year. Under the Al Lerner Money Machine program in Cleveland, the coach will more than double that: five years, nearly $15 million.


And all together: So what? At what point does the context outweigh the action? Here is Buck Ortega, quarterback at Miami Gulliver High School and a recruit whom Davis visited on Sunday. Interviewed by the Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel, Ortega quoted Davis as telling him this: "I took this job to be my last one. I'm going to stay until I retire."

Remember, that's Butch Davis talking to a high school kid the day before he accepted the job with the Cleveland Browns. Is there anything in Davis' previous six years at Miami, no matter how salutary, that can possibly turn that lie into the truth?


Nope, this time Butch Davis got the Miami program to within barely a week of National Signing Day, then left the Hurricanes for an NFL job that he repeatedly said he had no interest in. He left behind 18 oral commitments from high school players, several of whom now say they're wavering on Miami as their football program of choice. He left behind a couple of top-flight collegians whom he practically talked out of the NFL draft by saying they'd all stick around for next season and bring home a national championship together.

Whatever Davis is, whatever he has been and whatever he may yet become, he has spent a good portion of the year 2001 telling lies. It doesn't need to be qualified. It is what it is.

Well I'll admit you did post half of the story there.

Nice work x.5!


Not to belabor the point, but appreciate a willingness to deal in facts. Here's an SI piece from back in the day that hammers the same theme . . . and it does touch on UM contract issues.

Butch League Butch Davis left Miami scrambling when he betrayed his players and bolted for a big-money deal with the Browns - SI.com


The eldest among them had heard rumors of their
coach's imminent departure for years, but two days before Miami
played Florida in the Sugar Bowl--by which time he had turned
down offers from Alabama and the NFL-expansion Houston
Texans--Davis had brought the team together in a New Orleans
hotel and assured the players that he was staying. "If I leave
now, that makes me a deadbeat dad, because this is my family,"
he told them. "I want to finish my career right here at Miami."
A few days after Miami's 37-20 victory completed an 11-1 season
and cemented a No. 2 national ranking, he told them, "We're
going to work our asses off in the off-season, harder than we've
worked before. This is going to be an incredible season. We're
going to win the national championship."



"People were real mad," said McKinnie. "Especially the
young guys who have three, four years left. He told us he would
be here."


Not only had he restored the Hurricanes to a
place among the elite, salving the wounds resulting from the 1995
probation that cost Miami a crippling 31 scholarships, but he had
also repeatedly denied interest in leaving for the pros, despite
the widespread assumption by fans and media that the former
Dallas Cowboys assistant lusted after an NFL job. Three days
before the Sugar Bowl, at a time when three NFL teams were
searching for a coach and four more would follow suit, he
responded to a rumor that he was soon to visit with Browns
management by saying, "Don't they have a coach? I'm happy in
South Florida. My family loves it there. I plan to coach at Miami
for a long time."

Davis didn't just issue denials, he sold them.


At a dinner with recruits at the Rusty Pelican on Key Biscayne on
Jan. 20, Davis thanked McKinnie for returning to play next season
after NFL scouts had told him that he'd be taken high in the
first round of the April draft if he left school early. "Winning
a national championship will be the final piece of the puzzle for
you," Davis told McKinnie.


One week later Davis agreed in principle to a five-year, $15.7
million contract with the Browns, bolting Miami nine days before
recruits could sign letters of intent. Davis got a deal from
Cleveland that Miami could never have matched, but he and his
lawyer, Marvin Demoff, insist that the Browns weren't a serious
consideration until the school failed in late January to finalize
a five-year contract extension that had been in negotiation since
November. (After the 2000 season Davis had three years left on a
seven-year, $5.9 million contract.) "I'm thrilled with the
opportunity I have in Cleveland," Davis says, "but if Miami had
gotten the extension done in November, I'd still be the coach at
Miami."

The returning players will draw strength
from a familiar system, a comfort that they will need to soothe
their feelings of betrayal. "I've learned a lot from this week,"
Shockey, the tight end, says. "Don't take anything for granted,
trust nobody. Pretty simple."

Excellent job on giving your readers only the part of the facts that fit your narrative.

Keep up the mediocre work!
 
Howard left, in part, because UM wouldn't cover his son's medical bills as part of his contract.

Wow.
It wasn't the main reason, but it was a factor since the USFL gig would have been a big bump $$. His son was already an adult, so his insurance wouldn't cover it. I wrote about it on the site a couple of years ago. Here's a story about his son's death that I linked to: Howard Schnellenberger's son dies of cancer - TC Palm

Howard also had huge issue with administration about on campus stadium. They told him raise the money. He started and had a bunch of pledges when those smucks changed the rule on him -- they said the money had to come from people who had not already donated to Miami, it had to all be NEW donor money. I believe that was the final straw for Howard.

As to the biggest mistake, I'll say Howard. Butch, like most young top coaches, would have eventually gone to NFL anyway.

Howard had already been NFL HC, coached on great team ever, and had just dethroned his former boss and team(Shula and Fins) as Kind of South Florida. Had he stayed at THE U, Howard might have eventually been viewed as the greatest college football coach ever, dethroning his other former boss, the Bear.

Butch hurt us more, but Howard hurt himself more.
 
Not a lot of people turn down promotions especially if u gun get paid more, but clearly people don't understand money talks.

And since when is an nfl team gonna go after AL. When the nfl is calling that means u got a good one.
 
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Maybe he said to the kids he was gonna be there ( which was the truth ) but actually changed his mind later on.
 
In hindsight both were bad decisions, but it was a reasonable decision on both of their parts. They took what they presumed was the next level in their profession and in Butch's case the elite of his sports profession. Can't knock a man that takes that step.

We just haven't recovered from Butch leaving so it makes his departure the one that hurts more.
 
Butch has stated he really did think he and UM would have a contract, but UM tried to stick it to him, and Cleveland was waving money around.

JJ was continually ****ed at UM over some of the petty crap UM wanted to dish out.

UM THOUGHT that with the deadline for the season, that Butch would cave in at the last moment. Never dreamed he'd bolt when they wouldn't change their position.

But UM also though hiring Clappy, Radar, and ******* were good ideas too.
 
Butch and his agents - he had two during his Miami tenure - were hustling for the next job the day after he started in Miami. His Dallas-based agent at the time was especially known for fueling the media rumor mill. That's fine and part of the business. Just don't try to revise history.
 
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