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Ethnicsands

Ethnicsands

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I know I have harped on talent evals around here for a long time. And I know people talk about ‘development’ as if our talent is all being held back.

So it’s interesting to look at the 1970s, when the program wasn’t known for much and didn’t have great coaching. Interestingly, some of the best Canes of all time played at Miami In this era. We had guys who were first team AAs, who had really good nfl careers.

Guys who were drafted between ‘73 — ‘85 are guys who came before the program achieved success. Many predated Schnelly, though you can clearly see the impact of his evals on the ‘83-‘85 groups. Here’s a selection of who came out by year:

’73- C. Foreman, B. Owens, M. Barnes
’75- D. Harrah, R. Carter
‘76- G. Dunn
’77- E. Edwards
’78- D. Lattimer, J. Turner
‘79- O. Anderson, D. Smith
’81- Swain
’82- L. Williams, F. Marion
‘83- Kelly, Cooper, Chickillo, Lippett
’84- Bentley, Dennison, Brophy, Bellinger, S. Neal
’85- E. Brown, Heffernan, Broughton

My biggest take-away is how far standards have fallen around here. We over-hype guys who aren’t first team all conference in many instances, and seem to forget that even before we were a ‘brand,’ many fantastic players suited up for Miami. Obviously you can go further back and pick up others. Just seems to me to highlight evals. Don’t complain about SEC. Find the right guys.
 
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Talent evaluation and recruiting at the high school level was completely different than today. Schnellenberger actively recruited "bad" neighborhoods because they were largely ignored by everyone else. That's not the case these days. Players have position coaches and go to camps starting in their PeeWee days.
 
JD08 said:
Talent evaluation and recruiting at the high school level was completely different than today. Schnellenberger actively recruited "bad" neighborhoods because they were largely ignored by everyone else. That's not the case these days. Players have position coaches and go to camps starting in their PeeWee days.
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Lol exactly and SF wasn’t the recruiting hotbed it is today.
 
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Technology has had a MAJOR impact on recruiting, very hard to find a under rated kid these days
 
raytiller said:
Lol exactly and SF wasn’t the recruiting hotbed it is today.
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That's nonsense. Traditional powers were pulling future All Americans from SF since the 50's. Recruiting just wasn't as publicized as now. Also, segregation had a big role to play. These days, how many all pros do you hear about coming out of Grambling. It was routine in the 60s and 70s. It was Ray Bellamy that broke the bubble for southern schools to recruit black athletes.
 
Thommy30w said:
I think market is more efficient now. Not as much of an advantage for local information IMHO.
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This can't be understated. Information asymmetry has been minimized quite a bit. Programs with multi-million dollar recruiting budgets hire teams of analysts and staff to review film and find recruits all over the country (and especially in South Florida). High school players and coaches put their film and highlights online for the world to see. Kids travel to regional competitions and participate in athletic testing and drills against top talent from across the country. The flatness of the recruiting world has significantly blunted UM's geographic advantage in recruiting.
 
NorthEastCane said:
That's nonsense. Traditional powers were pulling future All Americans from SF since the 50's. Recruiting just wasn't as publicized as now. Also, segregation had a big role to play. These days, how many all pros do you hear about coming out of Grambling. It was routine in the 60s and 70s. It was Ray Bellamy that broke the bubble for southern schools to recruit black athletes.
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And it wasn't easy to break the mold. When Ray came many SEC schools wouldn't play us because he was black. It wasn't until Bama started recruiting black players did things change.
 
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The number of defeatist excuses in this thread is amazing.

The mathematical facts fly in the face of the excuses. It’s still 11 guys on each side. Roster limits mean there are fewer spots at major programs today than 40 years ago. Everyone claims technology changed recruiting blah blah. It did, but did it really make it so much more predictable? Where are the facts in support of that? The NFL is still full of guys who played at random places. Not just backups, either. NFL All Pro types. How does that happen? Meanwhile, Texas continues to suck because it identifies its targets too early, even if it keeps signing many of them.

It happens because projecting teenagers into college seniors or nfl picks is really uncertain and will always be. Maybe Alabama and Ohio State have the resources to sign enough low risk kids that they can be top teams year to year. But there are a LOT of kids each year who Alabama or Ohio State won’t take, because they’re less obvious for any range of reasons. And lower risk doesn’t always mean higher ceiling. Some kids they don’t take will end up better than anyone Alabama or Ohio State takes. And other kids they don’t take will end up being great in college, and good enough to support a title team. That’s what evals are about. Clemson is good at it. It beats them with high ceiling kids they miss on, with lower ceiling kids they pass on, and with a few kids they wish they had gotten. Most good teams EVALUATE well, and that means identifying which kids have the drive and traits that will translate. Not just which kids look good in 7-7 or HS all star games.
 
JD08 said:
Talent evaluation and recruiting at the high school level was completely different than today. Schnellenberger actively recruited "bad" neighborhoods because they were largely ignored by everyone else. That's not the case these days. Players have position coaches and go to camps starting in their PeeWee days.
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It’s ironic you say this, because one of the things that caused UM’s recruiting to decline was when the troll insisted we stop signing ’risky’ kids, which kinda meant reducing focus on just the type of kids we used to do well with.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
It’s ironic you say this, because one of the things that caused UM’s recruiting to decline was when the troll insisted we stop signing ’rsiky’ kids, which kinda meant reducing focus on just the type of kids we used to do well with.
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The old timers also used to look for character. They wanted people who would succeed. Now the rush to sign is as much to make sure someone else doesn't get them then hope they fit in later.
 
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JD08 said:
The old timers also used to look for character. They wanted people who would succeed. Now the rush to sign is as much to make sure someone else doesn't get them then hope they fit in later.
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Depends on what you mean by character. Plenty of guys who succeed in football aren’t nice. Some aren’t smart. Some have bad practice habits. Some associate with criminal activity. I understand why a fancy university might not want some of those types on its campus. But let’s not lie to each other about it all. There are a lot of reasons for football specific dorms at some schools.

Some of the players who made UM in the ‘80s wouldn’t be recruited anymore.
 
Ethnicsands said:
It’s ironic you say this, because one of the things that caused UM’s recruiting to decline was when the troll insisted we stop signing ’risky’ kids, which kinda meant reducing focus on just the type of kids we used to do well with.
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Like the troll said in that bullshat *** school infomercial "we're recruiting a different kind of athlete to the University of Miami", wasnt long after that started getting pointed out that they took that **** down. But the vhs tapes still on deck waiting for people to upload em!
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
This can't be understated. Information asymmetry has been minimized quite a bit. Programs with multi-million dollar recruiting budgets hire teams of analysts and staff to review film and find recruits all over the country (and especially in South Florida). High school players and coaches put their film and highlights online for the world to see. Kids travel to regional competitions and participate in athletic testing and drills against top talent from across the country. The flatness of the recruiting world has significantly blunted UM's geographic advantage in recruiting.
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It’s not all about information. Michael Irvin wasn’t that fast. Reggie Wayne wasn’t. Jerry Rice wasn’t.

Over-focus on information and measurables actually increases the opportunities for teams that can evaluate well on other traits.
 
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Calvin said:
Like the troll said in that bullshat *** school infomercial "we're recruiting a different kind of athlete to the University of Miami", wasnt long after that started getting pointed out that they took that **** down. But the vhs tapes still on deck waiting for people to upload em!
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Yep.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Yep.
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People thought i was bullshatin back than when i would bring it up, but you know how this tad foote administration has always been, but once the double agents started coming in, it was a wrap for UM football, the biggest blow was after the peach bowl. Once that real UM coaching culture changed, i said back than, we wont see UM football again unless you got UM coaches. That's how UM ends up winning 1 bowl game in the last 13 years!
 
Great post. UM has had a lot of “good” players the last 10 years. How many “great” players? Annnnnd that’s part of the reason we are an afterthought nationally.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Depends on what you mean by character. Plenty of guys who succeed in football aren’t nice. Some aren’t smart. Some have bad practice habits. Some associate with criminal activity. I understand why a fancy university might not want some of those types on its campus. But let’s not lie to each other about it all. There are a lot of reasons for football specific dorms at some schools.

Some of the players who made UM in the ‘80s wouldn’t be recruited anymore.
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It was there words, not mine. I assumed it to mean work ethic.
 
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