forums

Article: how long does it take to build a championship program?

Advertisement
hurricaneman said:
I don't know if Mario is the guy.

But we're not watching a team play like absolute garbage week in and week out. There are a handful of plays in each game that require the players and coaches to execute and they are simply not. Miami could be 5-0 right now if those few plays went differently. The hope is that a guy like Mario will eventually fix those problems, like the coaches in the article. But that is not always the case. We'll see.
Click to expand...
Score
TDs
In
The
Red Zone!
 
TimeBum said:
Then good news for the Cristo-bros, there is a minimum of amount of ncaa scrutiny now. Doesn't take a genius to figure out how to hide a bag drop within a NIL deal.

I think the only "enforcement" is a gentlemans agreement between programs not to steal each other's premier commits. It's open competition to drop the biggest bag and get the initial commitment, but once a recruit commits, its over unless the recruit reaches out (usually because the bag didnt arrive as promised). The conferences make sure family business isn't leaked to the public or the ncaa.

So Mario has no built-in excuses if he lands a disappointing class.
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
hurricaneman said:
I don't know if Mario is the guy.

But we're not watching a team play like absolute garbage week in and week out. There are a handful of plays in each game that require the players and coaches to execute and they are simply not. Miami could be 5-0 right now if those few plays went differently. The hope is that a guy like Mario will eventually fix those problems, like the coaches in the article. But that is not always the case. We'll see.
Click to expand...
download.png
 
I'm not sure how on point any of those comparisons are. Maybe Michigan is closest in terms of what the new staff inherited and not being G5, "independent" or SEC. Would be interesting to see where/how Clemson stacks up here as well.

What I see is that they hit 7+wins in season 1 and 10 wins by seasons 2 or 3.

In terms of those truly competing for national championships ( I only have Georgia and Alabama on this list, getting to the championship series doesn't actually make you a contender...ask Michigan and those f***** in West Bend) they also had top 5 (or better) classes by year one of a full recruiting period and then stayed in that range for multiple years.

So, right now, we need to get to 7 wins and move up in the rankings. Both look tough.
 
ItsAUThing.com said:
To your point, hiring the wrong guy can set you back.

To think Miami toiled in the desert for nine years with Randy Shannon and Al Golden, just backsliding and getting worse.

Mark Richt helped behind the scenes with the infrastructure, for a second-rate admin like Miami—but he was too tired to rebuild—and it left us three years of Manny Diaz, who killed the culture with his beta ways.

That's 15 wasted years for a program fans thought was a rebuilt, was nothing more than a legit waste of time.
Click to expand...
That’s just the way shalala wanted it. She knocked the program back 20 years.
 
The article's title is a red herring. I should be obvious that building a program is not about time (especially time alone), but rather about location, money, administrative commitment, fan support, and starting point.

You have to actually define your starting point as well, i.e, building a championship program from one that has been 8-5 for 20 years vs. a newly-created program, vs. a perennial loser.
 
JeddTheFisch said:
The article's title is a red herring. I should be obvious that building a program is not about time (especially time alone), but rather about location, money, administrative commitment, fan support, and starting point.

You have to actually define your starting point as well, i.e, building a championship program from one that has been 8-5 for 20 years vs. a newly-created program, vs. a perennial loser.
Click to expand...
This.
The answer could literally be 4 years or the answer could be forever.
 
Advertisement
How long does it take for Miami to win their mediocre conference? Let's find out the answer to that first.
 
hurricaneman said:
I don't know if Mario is the guy.

But we're not watching a team play like absolute garbage week in and week out. There are a handful of plays in each game that require the players and coaches to execute and they are simply not. Miami could be 5-0 right now if those few plays went differently. The hope is that a guy like Mario will eventually fix those problems, like the coaches in the article. But that is not always the case. We'll see.
Click to expand...
:oops:
 
Some additional coaches:

Bob Stoops (OU) - Year 1: 7-5, Year 2: 13-0
Mack Brown (TX) - Year 1: 9-3, Year 2: 9-4
Mack Brown (UNC) - Year 1: 7-6, Year 2: 8-4
Pete Carroll (USC) - Year 1: 6-6, Year 2: 11-2
Art Briles (Baylor) - Year 1: 4-8, Year 2: 4-8

And by comparison, the Miami HCs of the last 40 years:
Howard Schellenberger - Year 1: 5-6, Year 2: 9-3
Jimmy Johnson - Year 1: 8-5, Year 2: 10-2
Dennis Erickson - Year 1: 11-1, Year 2: 10-2
Butch Davis - Year 1: 8-3, Year 2: 9-3
Larry Coker - Year 1: 12-0, Year 2: 12-1
Randy Shannon - Year 1: 5-7, Year 2: 7-6
Al Golden - Year 1: 6-6, Year 2: 7-5
Mark Richt - Year 1: 9-4, Year 2: 10-3
Manny Diaz - Year 1: 6-7, Year 2: 8-3
 
GojiraCane said:
Some additional coaches:

Bob Stoops (OU) - Year 1: 7-5, Year 2: 13-0
Mack Brown (TX) - Year 1: 9-3, Year 2: 9-4
Mack Brown (UNC) - Year 1: 7-6, Year 2: 8-4
Pete Carroll (USC) - Year 1: 6-6, Year 2: 11-2
Art Briles (Baylor) - Year 1: 4-8, Year 2: 4-8

And by comparison, the Miami HCs of the last 40 years:
Howard Schellenberger - Year 1: 5-6, Year 2: 9-3
Jimmy Johnson - Year 1: 8-5, Year 2: 10-2
Dennis Erickson - Year 1: 11-1, Year 2: 10-2
Butch Davis - Year 1: 8-3, Year 2: 9-3
Larry Coker - Year 1: 12-0, Year 2: 12-1
Randy Shannon - Year 1: 5-7, Year 2: 7-6
Al Golden - Year 1: 6-6, Year 2: 7-5
Mark Richt - Year 1: 9-4, Year 2: 10-3
Manny Diaz - Year 1: 6-7, Year 2: 8-3
Click to expand...
Can't use Erickson or Coker....What tf did they have to rebuild??....if ANYTHING, they tore it down after instantaneous success due to other coaches hard work.
 
WanderFranco said:
This is how you know a guy is going to use one game as ammunition no matter what happens.
Click to expand...

When an experienced HC inherits a QB who was the ACC rookie of the year and who set records for most consecutive games with 300 yards and 3 TDs- something that even ACC legends like Trevor Lawrence or Kenny Pickett didn't accomplish- and yet still somehow gets blown out at home by a bad G5 school, your god**** right that one game is going to be used as ammunition.
 
Last edited:
rustywalkedaway said:
I'm not sure how on point any of those comparisons are. Maybe Michigan is closest in terms of what the new staff inherited and not being G5, "independent" or SEC. Would be interesting to see where/how Clemson stacks up here as well.

What I see is that they hit 7+wins in season 1 and 10 wins by seasons 2 or 3.

In terms of those truly competing for national championships ( I only have Georgia and Alabama on this list, getting to the championship series doesn't actually make you a contender...ask Michigan and those f***** in West Bend) they also had top 5 (or better) classes by year one of a full recruiting period and then stayed in that range for multiple years.

So, right now, we need to get to 7 wins and move up in the rankings. Both look tough.
Click to expand...
Clemson under Dabo:

Year 0: Dabo takes over mid-season and goes 4-3. Clemson finishes 7-6 overall
Year 1: 9-5 (wins Atlantic)
Year 2: 6-7
Year 3: 10-4 (wins Atlantic)
Year 4: 11-2
Year 5: 11-2
Year 6: 10-3
Year 7: 14-1 (wins Atlantic, goes to NC)
Year 8: 14-1 (wins Atlantic, wins NC)
Year 9: 12-2 (wins Atlantic)
Year 10: 15-0 (wins Atlantic, wins NC)
Year 11: 14-1 (wins Atlantic, goes to NC)
Year 12: 10-2 (wins Atlantic)
Year 13: 10-3

Getting a top tier college quarterback in year 3 with Tajh Boyd put him into the 10 win threshold for the next three seasons. Getting Deshaun Watson in Year 6 sent them to another level. And then getting Trevor Lawrence in Year 10 kept them at a national championship level. Much like Mack Brown but even more so, Dabo has enjoyed the benefits of having three consecutive top tier quarterbacks (Boyd, Watson, and Lawrence). Brown did the same with the back to back tenures of Vince Young and Colt McCoy.
 
Advertisement
TimeBum said:
When an experienced HC inherits a QB who was the ACC rookie of the year and who set records for most consecutive games with 300 yards and 3 TDs- something that even ACC legends like Trevor Lawrence or Kenny Pickett didn't accomplish- and yet still somehow gets blown out at home by a bad G5 school, your god**** right that one game is going to be used as ammunition.
Click to expand...

*you're

To serve what purpose? We lost. What now? No one can answer that. Do you want a public apology? Reparations?
 
SWFLHurricane said:
Can't use Erickson or Coker....What tf did they have to rebuild??....if ANYTHING, they tore it down after instantaneous success due to other coaches hard work.
Click to expand...

Let's use different examples for both
Erickson (Washington State): Year 1: 3-7-1, Year 2: 9-3
Erickson (Oregon State): Year 1: 7-5, Year 2: 11-1

Coker (UTSA): Year 1: 4-6, Year 2: 8-4
 
Back
Top