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Anyone that's defended McCoy

252cane said:
He does it cause he always says he just want to find the best 5 guys regardless of position. But also sometimes it’s out of need and or a guy isn’t ready at tackle so he kicks him inside. Samson was said to not look good at OT early in his career so they moved him inside. They brought McCoy in as a OT and they were high on him but they needed guys inside so they moved him inside to get him on the field.

And I think the belief with cantwell was he might not be ready to be a guy at OT yet especially in pass pro and his strength is his strength and the run game so let’s try him inside where we need help
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Ironically, he didn’t look good at OG when they first tried him there either the Cam year. IIRC the plan that year was to redshirt Bell cause Rivers was the returning LT and the battle for LG was between RR, McCoy and Sampson. McCoy got hurt in camp so RR won the start against the Turds. Then RR gets hurt in that game, McCoy plays and gets hurt a game or two after, then Sampson slides in. I think by the 4th game that season Rivers had slid over to OG full time with Bell burning his RS at LT and the narrative put out by Canes media was that Sampson would spend the rest of the year just working at Tackle.

Looking back on that it makes sense why they tried Cantwell at OG early this season but now that it looks like they have a good competition between 4 guys for 2 spots they may think it’s better to just move Cantwell to Tackle only for the rest of the season to get as many live reps there as the season allows.
 
Brooklyndee said:
I forgot about joel. He's a stud too. It's crazy how these rosters have flipped in the last few years. We used to only be capable of recruiting guards and trying to fit them in as badly placed tackles. Now it's easy for us to hit home runs at tackle but finding ideal guards has become more complex. It's not always a given that someone with tackle measurables can easily slot in as guards. If it was me I think I'd put joel at guard. LG next to jackson, take a transfer probably at center so we don't have to hope for the best out of sj or Rhys max or cannon at rg and congdon as RT. But regardless of what's going on right now with a TREMENDOUSLY INEXPERIENCED line, I don't question ANYTHING when it relates to Mario and mirabels decisions. Whether I agree with them or not.
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Hawks has 4 years to play, I'm pretty sure.

IMO:
Cantwell (4 to play)
Congdon (4 to play)
SJ(3 to play)/Woodrow(4 to play)
Max(3 to play)/Pickett(4 to play)
Hawks(3 to play)/Joel(4 to play)
 
TRick72 said:
252cane said:
He does it cause he always says he just want to find the best 5 guys regardless of position. But also sometimes it’s out of need and or a guy isn’t ready at tackle so he kicks him inside. Samson was said to not look good at OT early in his career so they moved him inside. They brought McCoy in as a OT and they were high on him but they needed guys inside so they moved him inside to get him on the field.

And I think the belief with cantwell was he might not be ready to be a guy at OT yet especially in pass pro and his strength is his strength and the run game so let’s try him inside where we need help
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Ironically, he didn’t look good at OG when they first tried him there either the Cam year. IIRC the plan that year was to redshirt Bell cause Rivers was the returning LT and the battle for LG was between RR, McCoy and Sampson. McCoy got hurt in camp so RR won the start against the Turds. Then RR gets hurt in that game, McCoy plays and gets hurt a game or two after, then Sampson slides in. I think by the 4th game that season Rivers had slid over to OG full time with Bell burning his RS at LT and the narrative put out by Canes media was that Sampson would spend the rest of the year just working at Tackle.

Looking back on that it makes sense why they tried Cantwell at OG early this season but now that it looks like they have a good competition between 4 guys for 2 spots they may think it’s better to just move Cantwell to Tackle only for the rest of the season to get as many live reps there as the season allows.
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Nah McCoy didn’t get hurt. Rivers had some type of injury and missed like 4 games. So bell was at LT and McCoy was at LG. Rivers came back and went to LT and bell to the bench but they would kick rivers inside to LG and give bell reps at LT
 
90scane said:
Hawks has 4 years to play, I'm pretty sure.

IMO:
Cantwell (4 to play)
Congdon (4 to play)
SJ(3 to play)/Woodrow(4 to play)
Max(3 to play)/Pickett(4 to play)
Hawks(3 to play)/Joel(4 to play)
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With the new 5 for 5 you can add a year to everyone on your list. Cantwell, Congdon, Woodrow, Pickett and Joel are all true freshman and the others in their second year.
 
These threads make me question my faith in both humanity and modern ophthamalogy. What in the actual F do some of you think you're seeng out there? Actually, how many of the commenters are actually blind?

Move Congdon to OT? No. Just plain no. Had you seen the CMU game or just watched the Tengwall video, you would CLEARLY see that Congdon played very well at OG. He can actually bend for a yuge dude. He needs to improve his pad level a bit, but he's 6'8" and that's to be expected.

Then I saw someone else mention that Samson was moved to OG after he didn't look good at OT and he didn't look good at OG either at first. He was fuccin hurt his freshman year with a knee injury...the kind that takes a minimum of 9 months to recover from, but usually takes a year +. Why is that always conveniently omitted?

I saw someone else say that the IOL recruiting since the Mauigoa class has been dreadful. Plazz, Minaya, SJ, Buchanon, Congdon, Pickett, Ervin (could be a T), Sparks and Woodrow are the names we took over that time. HALF of those names are true freshmen right now. How are we to assess them? Of the four that aren't true freshmen, two of them started the first game of the year this year....as sophomores. SJ has not looked good and has taken plenty of lumps on this board and others (#GoCames). Plazz transferred out to Auburn where he's currently a 3rd stringer and Minaya isn't getting many reps. Buchanon appears to have potential. He's not playing at an All ACC level or even close, but he's young and has some nasty to his game. He moves decently well. He's also learning. Congdon is a certified stud. His learning curve is flattening and he has potential to be a 3 and done type guy. Pickett keeps getting a lot of positive commentary. Ervin has been a favorite for a bit. Sparks and Woodrow? Who knows.

People forget that OL is the ultimate growth position at the college level. First, you gotta hit that college S&C program for at least a year usually. Then you need to learn the calls, the reads, and the adjustments while also learning how to watch film. Then you learn all those things from the perspective of all 5 positions on the OL so that in time the OL functions like a hand, not like 5 independent fingers. This goes into the mental side of the game which is a LOT for an 18 year old kid to master. All the while, you're learning technique, moves and counter moves. There's a reason why Samson took 3-4 years to get near his potential.

Here's the truth serum: We were incredibly spoiled for the last 2 seasons with an ELITE OL. Francis has HOF potential. Yeah, I said it....cuz it's true. Anez has incredible potential as well, maybe similar to Francis. Bell will be a good pro also. All of those guys had at least two full seasons as starters under their belts prior to being awesome at the college level. IT TAKES TIME for these guys to master it.
 
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati said:
These threads make me question my faith in both humanity and modern ophthamalogy. What in the actual F do some of you think you're seeng out there? Actually, how many of the commenters are actually blind?

Move Congdon to OT? No. Just plain no. Had you seen the CMU game or just watched the Tengwall video, you would CLEARLY see that Congdon played very well at OG. He can actually bend for a yuge dude. He needs to improve his pad level a bit, but he's 6'8" and that's to be expected.

Then I saw someone else mention that Samson was moved to OG after he didn't look good at OT and he didn't look good at OG either at first. He was fuccin hurt his freshman year with a knee injury...the kind that takes a minimum of 9 months to recover from, but usually takes a year +. Why is that always conveniently omitted?

I saw someone else say that the IOL recruiting since the Mauigoa class has been dreadful. Plazz, Minaya, SJ, Buchanon, Congdon, Pickett, Ervin (could be a T), Sparks and Woodrow are the names we took over that time. HALF of those names are true freshmen right now. How are we to assess them? Of the four that aren't true freshmen, two of them started the first game of the year this year....as sophomores. SJ has not looked good and has taken plenty of lumps on this board and others (#GoCames). Plazz transferred out to Auburn where he's currently a 3rd stringer and Minaya isn't getting many reps. Buchanon appears to have potential. He's not playing at an All ACC level or even close, but he's young and has some nasty to his game. He moves decently well. He's also learning. Congdon is a certified stud. His learning curve is flattening and he has potential to be a 3 and done type guy. Pickett keeps getting a lot of positive commentary. Ervin has been a favorite for a bit. Sparks and Woodrow? Who knows.

People forget that OL is the ultimate growth position at the college level. First, you gotta hit that college S&C program for at least a year usually. Then you need to learn the calls, the reads, and the adjustments while also learning how to watch film. Then you learn all those things from the perspective of all 5 positions on the OL so that in time the OL functions like a hand, not like 5 independent fingers. This goes into the mental side of the game which is a LOT for an 18 year old kid to master. All the while, you're learning technique, moves and counter moves. There's a reason why Samson took 3-4 years to get near his potential.

Here's the truth serum: We were incredibly spoiled for the last 2 seasons with an ELITE OL. Francis has HOF potential. Yeah, I said it....cuz it's true. Anez has incredible potential as well, maybe similar to Francis. Bell will be a good pro also. All of those guys had at least two full seasons as starters under their belts prior to being awesome at the college level. IT TAKES TIME for these guys to master it.
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Samson got hurt during his freshmen year. It was like October or something. He had a mcl. He came back from that and got reps at OT year 2 and the word was he wasn’t looking the best there then they moved him to guard. He had some issues at guard too then they put him back at OT. He started off spring of year 3 which was last year at OT and reports was he was improving. Then fall camp they moved him to guard and he really took off
 
supacane said:
You are a big leaking qweeeffing pum pum. Your post lets me know u a O. Last time u will get a response from me bich
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Dude it’s been proven that Mario and Mibrl have no problem playing young guys over vets. Meriweather and Cogdon wear behind on communication protection but also banged up. I’m not sure why they fell in love with SJ. He must have been a highlight in practice but he clearly isn’t ready for the bright lights at G. We still will need him in emergency situations. I think we’ve got something going on. If anything I think Mariosnd Mirabrl should have hit the portal harder, but they need to earn that reputation as OL whisperer now.
 
252cane said:
Samson got hurt during his freshmen year. It was like October or something. He had a mcl. He came back from that and got reps at OT year 2 and the word was he wasn’t looking the best there then they moved him to guard. He had some issues at guard too then they put him back at OT. He started off spring of year 3 which was last year at OT and reports was he was improving. Then fall camp they moved him to guard and he really took off
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You ever had knee surgery? Not a general arthroscope to repaid a meniscus. A real knee surgery. ACL, MCL, LCL or replacement? I have. It takes a long fuggin time to truly recover. Adrian Peterson is a GD freak of nature - most high level athletes don't get back on the field 7-8 months later, then rush for 2000 yards. Again, freak. Samson had to go through the OL drills and had to rehab himself to gain movement, but more importantly, confidence to move well. That's why I wrote what I wrote about Samson. I'm not disputing your time line. I'm not positive about the Tackle during spring of Year 3, but I'll take your word for it and it's not important to my point - his knee injury slowed his growth and he plays a position that generally takes a year or two to become functional and trustworthy at. That's it.

I hope this reply comes off relatively respectful.
 
rascon said:
I think it was a waste trying to move Cantwell to G in the fall when he played a ton of LT in spring.
He should have got more snaps at RT in the first four games instead of at G.

If he can’t beat out McCoy at RT, let him serve as the swing tackle for both positions and get reps at both spots. That would set him up great for next year and you have your plug and play guy at either spot if either goes down with injury.

Congdon should start at LG. It’s time to move SJ to backup cente/backup guard and compete with Rhys.

Merriweather isn’t a tackle, have him compete with Buchanan for the RG spot.
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I agree. I think we found our starter at LG. Between Meriweather and Buchanan they should be good enough to get through CLEMSON if not. We do not have a champ level Oline and Mensah is going to have to be Patrick Mahomes in his prime to get us -#6. Cantwell isn’t ready for us to slide McCoy to G yet. Hopefully he can get it all together to be the swing tackle for injury.
 
BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati said:
252cane said:
Samson got hurt during his freshmen year. It was like October or something. He had a mcl. He came back from that and got reps at OT year 2 and the word was he wasn’t looking the best there then they moved him to guard. He had some issues at guard too then they put him back at OT. He started off spring of year 3 which was last year at OT and reports was he was improving. Then fall camp they moved him to guard and he really took off
Click to expand...

You ever had knee surgery? Not a general arthroscope to repaid a meniscus. A real knee surgery. ACL, MCL, LCL or replacement? I have. It takes a long fuggin time to truly recover. Adrian Peterson is a GD freak of nature - most high level athletes don't get back on the field 7-8 months later, then rush for 2000 yards. Again, freak. Samson had to go through the OL drills and had to rehab himself to gain movement, but more importantly, confidence to move well. That's why I wrote what I wrote about Samson. I'm not disputing your time line. I'm not positive about the Tackle during spring of Year 3, but I'll take your word for it and it's not important to my point - his knee injury slowed his growth and he plays a position that generally takes a year or two to become functional and trustworthy at. That's it.

I hope this reply comes off relatively respectful.
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Yea he started last year off at OT in spring. I remember brockmeyer talking about how versatile he was to go from OT in spring to OG in fall and play at a high level. But I know the injury set him back some but my point was he supposedly had struggles before and after the injury. Now some of that was expected from a guy coming from playing weak comp in hs then coming up to this level and just playing a tough position that takes time. I think it’s very similar to what cantwell is going through right now and that’s the real correlation I was getting at
 
252cane said:
Yea he started last year off at OT in spring. I remember brockmeyer talking about how versatile he was to go from OT in spring to OG in fall and play at a high level. But I know the injury set him back some but my point was he supposedly had struggles before and after the injury. Now some of that was expected from a guy coming from playing weak comp in hs then coming up to this level and just playing a tough position that takes time. I think it’s very similar to what cantwell is going through right now and that’s the real correlation I was getting at
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I agree with that. Not all 5 stars are the same. Cici and Bain came in and played well from the rip. That is not common.
I think the comparison of Samson and Cantwell as it applies to competition is spot on.
 
NicKane said:
I’ve told you end of spring doesn’t mean ****! All that matters is fall camp because that’s when you start getting schemed against and of course what happens in the season. Cantwell and Sampson competed for the left tackle spot during fall and Sampson beat him out without any doubt. And for those who saw, it wasn’t close at all. So if you want Cantwell to play on this team this season as a tackle, it’s right tackle or nothing. But just so you know, he has a ton of developing to do and he is not ready this season. And that’s OK but those are the facts. Say whatever you want, but it’s not real reality if you’re arguing
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It is disappointing he is that far behind. We should have added a veteran OT if he was that far behind. This team has it everywhere on the team except at LB.

McCoy can up his level of play but he has not been nearly as bad as some people say. Anyway Mario and Mirabel and their reputations are on the line.
Brooklyndee said:
Number one I'm going to pacify this statement saying I don't know your football background or knowledge. So I'll just say it like I would most people with the assumption they don't understand the bigger picture. From what I've seen of your post before and what I remember I think you do have a little bit of football knowledge so I simply clarify. The problem with fans making assumptions that seem to be logical is there not looking at the bigger picture. Like I tried to explain to people last year when we knew we were going to be losing virtually our entire offensive line minus one person from the starters and we didn't know what we were replacing with them with in particular the simple logic was we're going to have four new starters and more than likely five new starters if you consider whether or not they were playing their positions then you have to realize the volatility that we're dealing with from snap to snap. And offensive line becomes good as a unit with reps with time that's not one camp that's years. Which is exactly why last season was so good. They had so much time together. Now you look at it as we have an entirely new offensive line yet we still have an almost 50 million dollar roster. We have a quarterback who is one of our bigger investments and that our season is dependent upon. Now how is it that you would deal with that if the decision was on your hands? Do you take the bookend left tackle of the future who has zero reps who has issues with his mechanics and say this is our time to work this all out so that the future of our team is in the best hands possible which also more than likely means you're going to struggle quite a bit inside of this season or do you just simply try and make pieces mesh where you can? I think the logic is simple with the approach that Mario took. As I've seen several people on here clarify before just because dmoney or somebody else talks about how great someone's looks inside of spring camp where there's no scheme applied doesn't make it accurate especially when most of them see things in small windows. Jackson struggled mightily throughout spring camp and fall he's certainly had his moments where you can see his future is amazing. CC was no different when he was a freshman either. He had issues all throughout camp. But you have to see the difference in where we were as a team at that time opposed to where we are as a team now. We didn't have expectations then we didn't have a roster then we weren't somebody that's capable of winning a national championship. The timing of that was very different from the timing of this. So while the future of our team says it would be great if we could count on Jackson at right tackle the logic is we can't just yet that's why he's getting reps in now with limited responsibility. I know I said a whole lot of s*** here just to get this point across and I'm sorry for anyone that took the time to read it all
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whwhich is why they should have got 1 more real OL in the portal.
 
Orig.CaneSawMassacre said:
It is disappointing he is that far behind
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Why are we assuming Cantwell is behind? Because he wasn't a day-one starter? There’s a very good chance both of our tackles get drafted, and one of them could very well play himself into the first round. I even saw a mock this morning with Samson going in the first round.

Cantwell is progressing exactly the way the staff envisioned. There is a lot of Football left to be played
 
ST26 said:
Why are we assuming Cantwell is behind? Because he wasn't a day-one starter? There’s a very good chance both of our tackles get drafted, and one of them could very well play himself into the first round. I even saw a mock this morning with Samson going in the first round.

Everyone loves to compare this situation to Francis, but we seem to forget how bad that tackle room was heading into 2023. We had no choice but to start Francis.

Cantwell is progressing exactly the way the staff envisioned.
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Cantwelll is behind. Everyone behind the scenes including my source confirms it. He is going to be the real deal but his awareness and communication coming from that small HS are not at the level it needs to be at.
 
Orig.CaneSawMassacre said:
Cantwelll is behind. Everyone behind the scenes including my source confirms it. He is going to be the real deal but his awareness and communication coming from that small HS are not at the level it needs to be at.
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Just because he’s not at the level he needs to be four games into the season doesn’t mean he’s behind. He’s a true freshman. Didn’t Mauigoa and Bell both have those same issues early on? They turned out to be pretty good lol
 
TRick72 said:
With the new 5 for 5 you can add a year to everyone on your list. Cantwell, Congdon, Woodrow, Pickett and Joel are all true freshman and the others in their second year.
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Except Hawks. He's already played a year in Juco, and I'm pretty sure that counts. So he has 4 to play 4.
 
90scane said:
Hawks has 4 years to play, I'm pretty sure.

IMO:
Cantwell (4 to play)
Congdon (4 to play)
SJ(3 to play)/Woodrow(4 to play)
Max(3 to play)/Pickett(4 to play)
Hawks(3 to play)/Joel(4 to play)
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I wouldn't write off Ervin, Wilkerson, even Campbell yet. And Jatori Williams and Sean Tatum are going to have a vote on that lineup, as well. Mirabalio stacking talent years to come.
 
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