Anyone have Vernon Carey's email?

[305to954]

how was Ja Morant gonna go 1st in the same draft as Zion lmao. Dude went to Murray state and still got picked ahead of every blue chipper from duke or Kentucky not named Zion. Had he gone to kentucky or Duke his numbers and minutes would have gone way down and he would have never gone in the lottery

I’m saying if ja was at Duke and Zion was at a lower school. If ja was at Duke putting up the numbers on a national stage he goes number one. And if Zion was at a Murray st he doesnt yet as much hype as he did. Also take into account who played with more talent. That is huge

 

[305to954]

Why do you keep bringing up Jamaal Murray? Dude averaged 20 his one year at UK and went 7th overall. Are you trying to say if he went somewhere else he would've been better off?

Tbh he probably never heard of Jamal Murray until he developed into a young star in the NBA LOL..

 

[305to954]

Ben Simmons went to LSU and still went 1st

Coach K is 120 years old and can’t even get to the final four with Zion and 2 other top 10 picks....I don’t get the fascination with rat face (or Calipari) Devin booker, jamaal Murray, Eric Bledsoe, Harry Giles just off the top of my head are guys that would have gone a lot higher if they had gone to a school we’re they would have been featured more. Kyrie could have gone to Keiser university and he still would have been the #1 pick. Simmons went to LSU didn’t even make the tournament and dropped all the way to....#1 overall pick. Who has Coach k “developed” that wasn’t already a 5 star or high 4 star player coming out of high school. Way too many male groupies/front runners nowadays smh

You clearly are not taking into account these guys all likely could’ve came straight outta Hs if the rules allowed it. Nobody is arguing they coach or any coach who get one and done talent is making guys. It’s the fact that by going to a school like Duke or Kentucky etc you are optimizing your chances to make the league. That’s a FACT. Based on facts from previous drafts. Not your opinion or mine..

 

[ALLoverCANE]

I just dont see any examples of 3 star or lower rated players who magically got developed by coach K into lottery picks. On the other hand i see dudes like Murray and Booker who were overshadowed at their schools and dropped in the draft and then balled out in the nba or guys like Simmons, Oden who were mega recruits and were gonna go #1 no matter where they went. And then there are guys like Fultz who go to "lesser" schools and get drafted wayyyy to high because they get to have the ball in their hands on every possession and put up ridiculous numbers because they dont have the share the ball with 6 other five star players. Lmao at the medical school comparison. Employers look at the school you went to because a) they dont ******* know you so they judge you by what school you attended and b) some employers specifically look for graduates of certain schools. Nba teams don't care about any of that and they know every player. But its whatever maybe he joined them because going there gives him a better chance of winning a title. Now thats a valid reason to choose Puke

"I just dont see any examples of 3 star or lower rated players who magically got developed by coach K into lottery picks"

This isn't a reasonable criteria by which to judge him. Not only do they not have 3 star recruits, but more generally, basketball has never been about developing mediocre players, in the way that baseball and football are. Basketball has always been about maximizing elite talent. It's the difference between great and good coaches, like Steve Kerr and Mark Jackson, Pat Riley and Stan Van Gundy, etc.

When you're a top high school player, college is a liability for you. You have a few months that can only hurt your stock. Duke and Kentucky have proven, more so than any other programs, that you can be a star on Day 1 as a freshman. Not all coaches can do that.

Case in point: Lonnie Walker was very underwhelming here. He was solid for a freshman, but that was it. You see similar stories at other schools.

Of course, that doesn't always happen. You can be a #1 pick out of anywhere - but that's nothing new. That's been the case for decades. But Duke and Kentucky are a high school kid's best shot at maintaining their value through their college months.

 

[ALLoverCANE]

how was Ja Morant gonna go 1st in the same draft as Zion lmao. Dude went to Murray state and still got picked ahead of every blue chipper from duke or Kentucky not named Zion. Had he gone to kentucky or Duke his numbers and minutes would have gone way down and he would have never gone in the lottery

No, had he gone to Duke or Kentucky he would've been drafted in the top 5 last year.

This is a dumb hypothetical.

 

[305to954]

No, had he gone to Duke or Kentucky he would've been drafted in the top 5 last year.

This is a dumb hypothetical.

Exactly. Ja had more exposure which equals hype along with the chance to play around other blue chips he would’ve gone number 1 imo. Even over Zion if they hypothetically swapped situations

 

[HamburgerSV]

No, had he gone to Duke or Kentucky he would've been drafted in the top 5 last year.

This is a dumb hypothetical.

Jamaal Murray and Devin Booker say hello. Ja’s usage rate would have plummeted, he would have played less minutes and he would have been overshadowed by his fellow 5 star teammates which is what happened to the guys i mentioned. Thats a dumb comment

 

[HamburgerSV]

You clearly are not taking into account these guys all likely could’ve came straight outta Hs if the rules allowed it. Nobody is arguing they coach or any coach who get one and done talent is making guys. It’s the fact that by going to a school like Duke or Kentucky etc you are optimizing your chances to make the league. That’s a FACT. Based on facts from previous drafts. Not your opinion or mine..

Again.....those teams have more draft picks because they get the best high school recruits. They don’t produce more draft picks because their name is Duke/Kentucky. Watch Memphis, which is the furthest thing from a blue chip program start “producing” lottery picks in the next 3-4 years

 

[Fort_Lauderdale954]

Why do you keep bringing up Jamaal Murray? Dude averaged 20 his one year at UK and went 7th overall. Are you trying to say if he went somewhere else he would've been better off?

yea he goes 2nd or 3rd...have you seen him in the nba ?

 

[ALLoverCANE]

Jamaal Murray and Devin Booker say hello. Ja’s usage rate would have plummeted, he would have played less minutes and he would have been overshadowed by his fellow 5 star teammates which is what happened to the guys i mentioned. Thats a dumb comment

Why do you keep talking about Jamaal Murray and Devin Booker? Those guys are not superstars. Jamaal Murray is 6' 4" and went 7th overall. How much higher could he have possibly gone? He's a nice player, but he's not a superstar. Devin Booker perhaps could've gone a couple of spots higher. But he's a horrendous defender and isn't an efficient enough scorer to overcome that. He was still a lottery pick.

These are weird players to base your argument on. Can you help me out with some math?

A) How players go #1 overall in a given year?
B) How many players play for Kentucky and Duke in a given year?
C) Is B bigger than A?

Of course not every player that goes to Duke and UK can go #1 overall.

 

[ALLoverCANE]

yea he goes 2nd or 3rd...have you seen him in the nba ?

I thought I did, but now I'm not so sure. You must be talking about a different guy. You can't possibly be referring to this guy:

Jamal Murray Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

I did some Googling for "top 25 under 25 NBA players" lists, too, to see if there was more hype around him than the numbers and the eye test would suggest is warranted. But he wasn't ranked in the top 10 or 15 on the lists I found, either.

It's very bizarre that you've chosen to hitch your wagon to this player. It seems like he was drafted in the perfect spot for a player of his caliber.

 

[ALLoverCANE]

Jamaal Murray and Devin Booker say hello. Ja’s usage rate would have plummeted, he would have played less minutes and he would have been overshadowed by his fellow 5 star teammates which is what happened to the guys i mentioned. Thats a dumb comment

Sorry to break this up into multiple posts, but I'm so puzzled by this absurd argument that I can't help myself from looking into it more. And every data point just reinforces how ridiculous it is that these are the two guys that keep getting mentioned. If anything, they're an argument for the ability of Kentucky to maximize its players' talent. These guys were both drafted significantly higher than their rankings coming out of high school.

Jamal Murray
-Recruiting rank: 71
-Draft position: 7

Devin Booker
-Recruiting rank: 23
-Draft position: 13

OK I need to stop wasting my time on this

 

[Fort_Lauderdale954]

I thought I did, but now I'm not so sure. You must be talking about a different guy. You can't possibly be referring to this guy:

Jamal Murray Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

I did some Googling for "top 25 under 25 NBA players" lists, too, to see if there was more hype around him than the numbers and the eye test would suggest is warranted. But he wasn't ranked in the top 10 or 15 on the lists I found, either.

It's very bizarre that you've chosen to hitch your wagon to this player. It seems like he was drafted in the perfect spot for a player of his caliber.

go back to the 2016 nba draft hes the second best player of that draft ( after simmons) if you want to say well thats hindsight- thats a good point-but he averaged 18-20 at kentucky without really being the featured guy. Imagine if he went to some school were he can jack up shots markelle fultz style. he would have gone 2nd or 3rd

 

[Fort_Lauderdale954]

Sorry to break this up into multiple posts, but I'm so puzzled by this absurd argument that I can't help myself from looking into it more. And every data point just reinforces how ridiculous it is that these are the two guys that keep getting mentioned. If anything, they're an argument for the ability of Kentucky to maximize its players' talent. These guys were both drafted significantly higher than their rankings coming out of high school.

Jamal Murray
-Recruiting rank: 71
-Draft position: 7

Devin Booker
-Recruiting rank: 23
-Draft position: 13

OK I need to stop wasting my time on this

that is such a dumb comment i dont even know to begin. Ja Morant - recruiting rank: 76590th - draft rank: 2nd Maybe everybody need to go to murray state. Devin Booker would have put up ridiculous numbers if he went to a school were he would have been the main guy and gone much much higher ( see markelle Fultz). Instead he only played 20 min/ 7 shots per game and dropped to 13th. I really need to stop wasting my time with this, its too much work. I respect your opinion that going to duke/kentucky magically makes players get ranked higher but i disagree with it. Lets leave it at that i even let you get the last word

 

[ALLoverCANE]

that is such a dumb comment i dont even know to begin. Ja Morant - recruiting rank: 76590th - draft rank: 2nd Maybe everybody need to go to murray state. Devin Booker would have put up ridiculous numbers if he went to a school were he would have been the main guy and gone much much higher ( see markelle Fultz). Instead he only played 20 min/ 7 shots per game and dropped to 13th. I really need to stop wasting my time with this, its too much work. I respect your opinion that going to duke/kentucky magically makes players get ranked higher but i disagree with it. Lets leave it at that i even let you get the last word

Wait, when did you "let" me get the last word? Is this the last word, or was my previous comment the last word?

 

[305to954]

Again.....those teams have more draft picks because they get the best high school recruits. They don’t produce more draft picks because their name is Duke/Kentucky. Watch Memphis, which is the furthest thing from a blue chip program start “producing” lottery picks in the next 3-4 years

Lmao yo you just contradicted yourself..the premise of the our discussion was coach K, and why blue chippers would be dumb to turn down playing for him or calapari and a few others if their ultimate goal is to be one and down and optimize those months in college..Memphis might not be a blue blood but it has a rich basketball history. And they might just have another run of lottery picks..but duke will still have it’s run of lottery picks

 

[CrooKs]

Tbh he probably never heard of Jamal Murray until he developed into a young star in the NBA LOL..

He might have half an argument with regards to Booker but he isn’t all that athletic and probably would’ve been drafted the same regardless.

He keeps saying Jamal Murray but he went about as high as he was going to coming out. Murray was the guy during his one season at UK. That was one of the worst teams Cal has had since he’s been there. Murray wouldn’t have done anything more anywhere else.

He also used Harry Giles as an example. If not sure if this dude even pays attention to college ball.

 

[CrooKs]

that is such a dumb comment i dont even know to begin. Ja Morant - recruiting rank: 76590th - draft rank: 2nd Maybe everybody need to go to murray state. Devin Booker would have put up ridiculous numbers if he went to a school were he would have been the main guy and gone much much higher ( see markelle Fultz). Instead he only played 20 min/ 7 shots per game and dropped to 13th. I really need to stop wasting my time with this, its too much work. I respect your opinion that going to duke/kentucky magically makes players get ranked higher but i disagree with it. Lets leave it at that i even let you get the last word

What about the Daniel Orton or Marquis Teague? Guys who only got recognition because they played on star studded UK teams

 

[CrooKs]

go back to the 2016 nba draft hes the second best player of that draft ( after simmons) if you want to say well thats hindsight- thats a good point-but he averaged 18-20 at kentucky without really being the featured guy. Imagine if he went to some school were he can jack up shots markelle fultz style. he would have gone 2nd or 3rd

Okay, please tell me who was the featured guy on his team at Kentucky if it wasn’t Murray.

This is where you are ******* up with you’re arguments. You keeping using Murray and he was a featured guy. He is the epitome of a counter argument to your argument and you’re using him as an example of why you’re right.

 

[305to954]

He might have half an argument with regards to Booker but he isn’t all that athletic and probably would’ve been drafted the same regardless.

He keeps saying Jamal Murray but he went about as high as he was going to coming out. Murray was the guy during his one season at UK. That was one of the worst teams Cal has had since he’s been there. Murray wouldn’t have done anything more anywhere else.

He also used Harry Giles as an example. If not sure if this dude even pays attention to college ball.

Giles been injured at Duke