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Another Reason Why FB Program is Vital for UM's Future

FL Cane

FL Cane

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Don't know if any of you have seen it yet, but the new US News and World Rankings came out today. Florida clocks in at #29 this year and as the #5 public university in the country. Miami remains unchanged at #55, along with FSU, after dropping 6 spots in 2021. FIU rose 6 spots to #72 in the country after rising 17 spots the year before. Methodology aside, the way rankings are formulated can be very weird and abstract; this is a big problem for UM.

Perception matters, and if things don't change for UM, the time is coming soon when we will be (academically) the #4 ranked university in the state.

As I said before, perception matters. A good football program raises brand awareness nationally and can increase enrollment (especially out-of-state enrollment). Look at Alabama as a case study. Their reemergence onto the CFB scene was the best marketing the school could've ever asked for. Their app numbers and out-of-state enrollment have skyrocketed since 2010. Their undergraduate and graduate programs have skyrocketed in the rankings as well.

For UM's sake, it is vital for the school that our FB program reemerges onto the national scene. National relevance would go a long way in stopping the bleeding academically and is the school's best marketing, revenue, and fundraising tool. We can't compete with state schools on funding, so we need vehicles to increase our national brand. Football is the #1 avenue for that.
 
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Miami needs to overhaul academic leadership/strategy. There's no reason they can't be a top 30 school.
 
hurricaneman said:
Miami needs to overhaul academic leadership/strategy. There's no reason they can't be a top 30 school.
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It's been an absolute disaster under Frenk. The school's been so focussed on its pre-med and med school programs that it allowed its other programs to atrophy. Look at the law school as one example, the Dean got canned last year, and the program has been plummeting in the national rankings for just as long.

UM used to be a huge draw for the best in-state applicants because - while it was more expensive - it was the better and more exclusive school. Now, the best and the brightest can go to UF or FSU for a better/similar education for a third of the price. A major revamp is needed.
 
Hegemon said:
Does it bother you its also bases off alumni base and donations?

#Academics
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Does it bother you that that is one of many variables, and the vast majority of people who look at these rankings don’t know or care?

You have to have your head in the sand to think UM academics hasn’t been abysmal almost across the board in recent years.
 
305_separatist said:
Does it bother you that that is one of many variables, and the vast majority of people who look at these rankings don’t know or care?

You have to have your head in the sand to think UM academics hasn’t been abysmal almost across the board in recent years.
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Completely agree. While the US News and World methodology sucks, kids see it as a guidepost for their apps. They care about the topline number. It's a huge problem for the school that in-state applicants can get a better/similar education for 1/3 of the cost at FSU and UF. At the least, we need to be ahead of FSU and FIU.
 
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Football definitely increases interest, exposure and application rate to the university. However, it is the administration itself that sets the mission/strategy to improve these rankings based on how they score them.

I'm a Miami alum and I love my school, the campus and the memories I made there. However, I'm not sure I would ever lean on my kids to attend UM as it currently stands; there just isn't a real value proposition to send them to a private school that costs $55K per year and it is ranked well below other private school with similar costs or even state schools that cost 20% of that. That's the definition of insanity if you ask me.
 
305_separatist said:
Does it bother you that that is one of many variables, and the vast majority of people who look at these rankings don’t know or care?

You have to have your head in the sand to think UM academics hasn’t been abysmal almost across the board in recent years.
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And putting that on football is dumb AF
 
305_separatist said:
Does it bother you that that is one of many variables, and the vast majority of people who look at these rankings don’t know or care?

You have to have your head in the sand to think UM academics hasn’t been abysmal almost across the board in recent years.
Click to expand...
Miami was the Harvard of the South when I rocked the Rath...
 
FL Cane said:
Completely agree. While the US News and World methodology sucks, kids see it as a guidepost for their apps. They care about the topline number. It's a huge problem for the school that in-state applicants can get a better/similar education for 1/3 of the cost at FSU and UF. At the least, we need to be ahead of FSU and FIU.
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If it did not matter and the schools did not care, they would not make a huge push to get their ranking out there when it is high enough or fast rising enough. In the legal sphere there is a whole thing to be a "T-14" school and, in turn, the big firms largely let that guide their on campus interview locations. People can yell about the method (rightfully so), or how accurate it is (also fair), but regardless of all of that, it still holds weight.
 
wspcane said:
If it did not matter and the schools did not care, they would not make a huge push to get their ranking out there when it is high enough or fast rising enough. In the legal sphere there is a whole thing to be a "T-14" school and, in turn, the big firms largely let that guide their on campus interview locations. People can yell about the method (rightfully so), or how accurate it is (also fair), but regardless of all of that, it still holds weight.
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UM will never sniff T-14, and they'll only have 5-10% of a 3L class secure big law job offers, but that program needs to improve. UF Law has done an excellent job of turning themselves into a T30 school, and FSU is also rising in the ranks. Completely agree it still holds weight.
 
hurricaneman said:
Miami needs to overhaul academic leadership/strategy. There's no reason they can't be a top 30 school.
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I know that some people are going to defend Frenk, because football improvements have been allowed on his watch.

But he has been basura for the academic side. And I'm a UM alum, so that matters to me.
 
Hegemon said:
And putting that on football is dumb AF
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It's not putting it on football. It's just noting that football is probably our best avenue to increase national brand awareness and get those out-of-state enrollment numbers up, thereby making the school a better academic destination.
 
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You can tell the idiots in our fanbase that never attended college, and those that did.

The USNWR rankings are designed to do ONE THING, sell magazines, no one knows exactly what the criteria is, what is known about said criteria is that it's EXTREMELY easy to manipulate. Are you in the middle of a huge fundraising drive? You'll climb the rankings, regardless if you are actually doing anything to improve the educational experience for students. Are you playing games with admission yield, in order to look more selective? You'll climb the rankings, because a couple of decimal points can be worth 20+ spots in the rankings.

Dr. Frenk isn't nearly the fundraiser Dr. Shalala was, and that's my major issue with him. He has done an extremely poor job of attracting top end faculty, and that's why I wouldn't have a problem if he was pushed aside for a more dynamic leader. You don't go from Dr. Shalala raising Billions for the University and attracting **** good faculty to this guy that apparently doesn't even have the respect of the faculty and isn't nearly as visible on campus as his predecessor. The powers that be wanted a puppet Prez, and they got it. They could have had someone like Adm. Stavridis, but they settled for this guy, for whatever reason.

You really think FIU magically became 40+ spots better overnight? Of course not, the ranking criteria has been adjusted to benefit larger state schools, and schools that are extremely cheap. Outside of the Ivy leagues and Ivy adjacents, there are few and I mean few private schools climbing the rankings, mostly because the criteria directly hoses those schools.
 
Canedude08 said:
You can tell the idiots in our fanbase that never attended college, and those that did.

The USNWR rankings are designed to do ONE THING, sell magazines, no one knows exactly what the criteria is, what is known about said criteria is that it's EXTREMELY easy to manipulate. Are you in the middle of a huge fundraising drive? You'll climb the rankings, regardless if you are actually doing anything to improve the educational experience for students. Are you playing games with admission yield, in order to look more selective? You'll climb the rankings, because a couple of decimal points can be worth 20+ spots in the rankings.

Dr. Frenk isn't nearly the fundraiser Dr. Shalala was, and that's my major issue with him. He has done an extremely poor job of attracting top end faculty, and that's why I wouldn't have a problem if he was pushed aside for a more dynamic leader. You don't go from Dr. Shalala raising Billions for the University and attracting **** good faculty to this guy that apparently doesn't even have the respect of the faculty and isn't nearly as visible on campus as his predecessor. The powers that be wanted a puppet Prez, and they got it. They could have had someone like Adm. Stavridis, but they settled for this guy, for whatever reason.

You really think FIU magically became 40+ spots better overnight? Of course not, the ranking criteria has been adjusted to benefit larger state schools, and schools that are extremely cheap. Outside of the Ivy leagues and Ivy adjacents, there are few and I mean few private schools climbing the rankings, mostly because the criteria directly hoses those schools.
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Agree that USNWR methodology is off and doesn’t capture the full picture. However, college applicants heavily use it. It sucks but it’s the reality of the situation. Adm. Stavridis also would’ve been a home run hire. A huge issue with UM, in selecting Frenk and with other high profile decisions, is how absolutely incompetent the BOT is. Other than a few members, most people on it want to keep the status quo going regardless of results.
 
FL Cane said:
Completely agree. While the US News and World methodology sucks, kids see it as a guidepost for their apps. They care about the topline number. It's a huge problem for the school that in-state applicants can get a better/similar education for 1/3 of the cost at FSU and UF. At the least, we need to be ahead of FSU and FIU.
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All of this is true.

We have to focus on three primary areas.

One is cost/affordability/loans. UM's tuition could be a million dollars a year, but if they give out $999,000 in financial aid to each student, all is good. One element is fundraising/scholarship-endowment. The other key element is COMMUNICATION. I can't tell you the number of people I've spoke with over the last 35 years that didn't even bother applying because of their perceptions of how much it would cost.

Another issue is job placement. UM sits in one of the most populous parts of one of the most populous states, there should NEVER be an issue with finding jobs for graduates at any level. Bottom line, we need to treat our job placement offices like Mario has treated the athletic staff. We need a TON of staffing. I don't care if we hire 8,000 people to find 8,000 undergrads jobs, whatever it takes, our academic ranking is based on this (in part). Once we are doing great with job placement, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Finally, we need to raise our academic "reputation". This one is tricky, because I know that our faculty DOES actually publish quite a bit. Maybe we need to have more of our med faculty publicizing the connection between research and cures. Maybe the law faculty need to go on TV more frequently. Maybe we need to encourage undergrad/grad faculty to write books that non-academics can enjoy. Whatever it takes, we need to raise the reality (and/or the PERCEPTION) that our faculty are great at their subject matters.
 
FL Cane said:
UM will never sniff T-14, and they'll only have 5-10% of a 3L class secure big law job offers, but that program needs to improve. UF Law has done an excellent job of turning themselves into a T30 school, and FSU is also rising in the ranks. Completely agree it still holds weight.
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I am not saying they will get anywhere close to that. I am just saying whether it is 14, 20, 30, or 50, it is something the schools pay attention to and validate. When I started, they were right around 50. By the time I graduated, they were in the 70s. Their tax program was always top 5. Now it is nowhere to be seen. With the mass of big firms and finance jobs moving to Miami, it would be a good and smart time to put some money into the law and business schools.
 
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