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Andre Johnson..

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Andre Johnson and Torry Holt are very even. Very similar career stats, but when you think of the best WR's over the last 15 years, 6 or 7 guys come to mind before them. Torry Holt is sort of already forgotten, and in a couple years when Dre becomes eligible, he'll probably be the same situation. Both are going to have to wait a while.
 
bshaw28 said:
playmaker20 said:
Outside of Moss and T.O what 5 are ahead of AJ over the past 15 years?
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Moss, TO, Calvin Johnson & Harrison would be definite.

An argument can be made for Fitzgerald, Wayne, Ward, Holt, Steve Smith & Brandon Marshall.
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bshaw28 said:
playmaker20 said:
Outside of Moss and T.O what 5 are ahead of AJ over the past 15 years?
Click to expand...

Moss, TO, Calvin Johnson & Harrison would be definite.

An argument can be made for Fitzgerald, Wayne, Ward, Holt, Steve Smith & Brandon Marshall.
Click to expand...

WTF are talking about? Wayne, Ward, Holt, Steve Smith and Brandon Marshall are 100% behind Dre. Not only does Dre have the career stats, he is one of two WRs in history to have at least three seasons with 1500yds or more in a season, the other guy is Jerry Rice. The two biggest things Canton looks for are rings and dominance at the position. Dre dominated at his position. Also TO isn't in not because of his on field performance but because of his rep, which BTW is BS.
 
bobbydigius said:
bshaw28 said:
playmaker20 said:
Outside of Moss and T.O what 5 are ahead of AJ over the past 15 years?
Click to expand...

Moss, TO, Calvin Johnson & Harrison would be definite.

An argument can be made for Fitzgerald, Wayne, Ward, Holt, Steve Smith & Brandon Marshall.
Click to expand...

WTF are talking about? Wayne, Ward, Holt, Steve Smith and Brandon Marshall are 100% behind Dre. Not only does Dre have the career stats, he is one of two WRs in history to have at least three seasons with 1500yds or more in a season, the other guy is Jerry Rice. The two biggest things Canton looks for are rings and dominance at the position. Dre dominated at his position. Also TO isn't in not because of his on field performance but because of his rep, which BTW is BS.
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I'm not saying they are better, but an argument can definitely be made for each of those WR's. Marvin Harrison also has 3 1,500+ yd seasons btw. Antonio Brown would have 3 straight if you counted his 1,499 yd season in 2013.

If I would argue against Dre it would go like this

Andre Johnson
Years – 13
Career Yds – 14,100
Career TD’s - 68
Pro Bowls – 7
100 Catch Seasons – 5
10 TD Seasons – 0
1K YD Seasons - 7

Playing on bad teams, and losing the half of 2 seasons in his prime to injury hurt Dre. But what really hurts is the low TD total. He's only 9th on the list of Receiving TD's for active players. He only had 1 season with more than 8 TD's, and never had 10 in a season. He only had 4 seasons where he led his own team in TD receptions. That hurts.

Reggie Wayne
Years – 14
Career Yds – 14,345
Career TD’s - 82
Pro Bowls – 6
100 Catch Seasons – 4
10 TD Seasons – 3
1,000 YD Seasons - 8

What helps Reggie is he has a Super Bowl ring and 1.200+ yds and 9 TD's in the post season. Dre's production dropped off around 32, but Reggie had a 1,355 yd season at age 34. That season sort of made you appreciate how good he really was.

Hines Ward
Years – 14
Career Yds – 12,083
Career TD’s - 85
Pro Bowls – 4
100 Catch Seasons – 1
10 TD Seasons – 3
1,000 YD Seasons - 6

Also helped by his postseason - Ward has 2 Super Bowl rings and 1 Super Bowl MVP. 1,200 yds & 10 TD's in the playoffs. He was the go to WR on a playoff team for 8 years. Probably considered the most devastating blocker for a WR ever.

Torry Holt
Years – 11
Career Yds – 13,382
Career TD’s - 85
Pro Bowls – 7
100 Catch Seasons – 2
10 TD Seasons – 3
1,000 YD Seasons - 8

1 Super Bowl Ring. Only WR to have 6 straight season with 1,300+ yards. Jerry Rice & Randy Moss are the only other WR's to 6 or more 1,300 yd seasons at all. Rice, Moss, Harrison & Holt are the only WR's to have 1,200 yds in more than 4 consecutive seasons. 4 of those seasons, and the bulk of his career, was with Marc Bulger at QB, not Kurt Warner. Where as Wayne was 2nd fiddle to Harison most of his career, Holt was just as good as Isaac Bruce in his 2nd year, and better than him in his 3rd year. The NFL all 2000's decade team WR's were Moss, Owens, Harrison & Holt.

Steve Smith
Years – 14
Career Yds – 13,932
Career TD’s - 76
Pro Bowls – 5
100 Catch Seasons – 1
10 TD Seasons – 1
1,000 YD Seasons - 8

Played in 1 Super Bowl, and had 2 dominant postseasons. Was a dominant returner with 4 punt return TD's & 2 kick return TD's in his first 3 seasons before being taken off returns. Probably gets the "Allen Iverson" award for being pound for pound the toughest WR ever.

Brandon Marshall
Years – 10
Career Yds – 11,273
Career TD’s - 79
Pro Bowls – 6
100 Catch Seasons – 6
10 TD Seasons – 4
1,000 YD Seasons - 8

Has the most 100 catch seasons of any WR. His numbers are lower only because he's played 3 less years than Dre. His per season avg in catches, yards, and TD's are better than Dre. He just had his best season, so if he plays a couple more years he probably finishes with better numbers. The black hole years in Miami and personality disorder thing probably work against him.

Basically I think Fitzgerald, Holt, and eventually Brandon Marshall should be considered better than Dre - but it's very close. Torry Holt is way under appreciated. I don't think Ward, Smith & Wayne are as good as Dre, but I can see it if someone made that argument.
 
Brandon Marshall, Hines Ward???? Ask yourself if at EVER at ANY point in their careers were they ever in the conversation as the best WR in the league? How about we start there..answer is NO! So that crosses them off immediately.

Calvin Johnson wont be a definite. And he will have to wait. So will Fitz and Steve Smith. I put them in the company of guys like Andre Reed and Tim Brown. Guys who eventually got in but had to wait their turn.

I look at guys like Wayne and AJ as guys who will get in on the 3rd go around. Like Harrison.

TO is like Michael Irvin. Should have been first ballot but the committee just couldnt do it. TO will get in next year. Hate the guy if you want but ball dont lie. His numbers speak for themselves and if McNabb hadnt **** the bed in the SB he would have a ring to boot.
 
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the only thing that hurts johnson in HOF discussion numbers wise is lack of TD's. I believe someone mentioned he has never had a double digit touchdown season. his receptions and yardage totals are exceptional though.
 
bshaw28 said:
Andre Johnson and Torry Holt are very even. Very similar career stats, but when you think of the best WR's over the last 15 years, 6 or 7 guys come to mind before them. Torry Holt is sort of already forgotten, and in a couple years when Dre becomes eligible, he'll probably be the same situation. Both are going to have to wait a while.
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honestly WR is a very deep position when it comes to HOF caliber players

it took art monk several ballots to get it

unless you are a jerry rice or randy moss you likely wont be a first ballot

we arent even sure if moss will be a first ballot but i think he should be
 
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