All Eyes On Mario

[hoops156]

And that's just how gullible people are. Mario quickly started blaming the players to defend his job. The homers fell in line and will just repeat his talking points until they have no choice.

The same people defended Manny after losing to GT, Duke, FIU, and La Tech.

Sad thing is, Manny would have won more games this past year.

i think mario is way better than manny and has proven to be a good coach. i think he was terrible last year. overall, i think mario will get it right here. how much we win (in terms of a title), well see.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

the bull**** that is fed to you is unreal. the real thing is that the coaching sucked and both players and coaches quit on each other as a result. we arent bama or uga but we are better than 5-7 and play a schedule that isnt remotely difficult especially with the talent we do have and the supposed elite coach we hired to get you to 8-9 min on average even in a bad year. fact is, we should be closer to a 10 win team yearly w this crappy ACC schedule (we play in the easier division too).

1. There are no longer divisions in the ACC.

2. You're not wrong, the coaching stunk and the players quit. HOWEVER, it tends to happen to first-year coaches even when they have talent on paper. Example #1: Kirby Smart, Year 1 at UGA, went 8-5. Lost to Vanderbilt, at home. Lost to GA Tech, at home. Their 2016 recruiting class was ranked #6. Their 2015 class was ranked #6. Their 2014 class was ranked #8. You think they had less talent than Vanderbilt? Less than GA Tech? Of course not, but they lost. Because sometimes it's not ALL ABOUT THAT in Year 1. Those were Richt's kids, with Richt's coaching instilled into them, Richt's attitude, etc. And Kirby's is different. Not always 10000% better (although obviously Kirby has had the success Richt never could), but more than anything, it's different. The next year, 2017, he took basically the same exact roster and lost in OT in the national championship game.

What we saw last year gets no excuses. It was unacceptable on every level. But I think the Head Coach would tell you the same thing, and he's not making excuses. He's just working. He fired his OC, he let his DC walk, he hired a Hall of Famer to coach his defensive line, he brought in an offensive coordinator that this board told me he would NEVER hire because he's a neanderthal and would never run a 21st century offense.....he understands last year was a full diaper lit on fire, and he's working to get the program where he believes it should be. But sometimes, even the elite coaches take a year to get things going in the right direction.

We've all discussed all the scenarios on here ad nauseum. Saban losing to Louisiana Monroe in Year 1. Think Alabama had worse talent than they did? Of course not, but Saban was coaching other people's kids. It takes a minute to have them think, react, and play how you expect them to.

So I'm not sure I'll ever be able to get the stink of 2022 out of my nose. It was goddamed pathetic on every level. But it doesn't mean that Mario nor the kids who were here last year are incapable of winning. Now if we go 5-7 again this year, or even something close to that, all bets are off. I will be the first one in line saying this might not work. But you can't say that now, no matter how bad last year was, because it's literally proven that good coaches can have abominations for first seasons and still work or just fine.

 

[Felonious Monk]

I'm certain we won't win 10 games until we're in the SEC, signing nothing but SFL 5 stars in April, and playing in an on-campus stadium.

And Mario is a corch if he can't make that happen before fall practise.

 

[hoops156]

1. There are no longer divisions in the ACC.

2. You're not wrong, the coaching stunk and the players quit. HOWEVER, it tends to happen to first-year coaches even when they have talent on paper. Example #1: Kirby Smart, Year 1 at UGA, went 8-5. Lost to Vanderbilt, at home. Lost to GA Tech, at home. Their 2016 recruiting class was ranked #6. Their 2015 class was ranked #6. Their 2014 class was ranked #8. You think they had less talent than Vanderbilt? Less than GA Tech? Of course not, but they lost. Because sometimes it's not ALL ABOUT THAT in Year 1. Those were Richt's kids, with Richt's coaching instilled into them, Richt's attitude, etc. And Kirby's is different. Not always 10000% better (although obviously Kirby has had the success Richt never could), but more than anything, it's different. The next year, 2017, he took basically the same exact roster and lost in OT in the national championship game.

What we saw last year gets no excuses. It was unacceptable on every level. But I think the Head Coach would tell you the same thing, and he's not making excuses. He's just working. He fired his OC, he let his DC walk, he hired a Hall of Famer to coach his defensive line, he brought in an offensive coordinator that this board told me he would NEVER hire because he's a neanderthal and would never run a 21st century offense.....he understands last year was a full diaper lit on fire, and he's working to get the program where he believes it should be. But sometimes, even the elite coaches take a year to get things going in the right direction.

We've all discussed all the scenarios on here ad nauseum. Saban losing to Louisiana Monroe in Year 1. Think Alabama had worse talent than they did? Of course not, but Saban was coaching other people's kids. It takes a minute to have them think, react, and play how you expect them to.

So I'm not sure I'll ever be able to get the stink of 2022 out of my nose. It was goddamed pathetic on every level. But it doesn't mean that Mario nor the kids who were here last year are incapable of winning. Now if we go 5-7 again this year, or even something close to that, all bets are off. I will be the first one in line saying this might not work. But you can't say that now, no matter how bad last year was, because it's literally proven that good coaches can have abominations for first seasons and still work or just fine.

i know about 1. i was talking about what we have done to now under any coach really.

1. Kirby went 8-5. we went 5-7 and we werent even competitive in that 5-7. thats a big difference. it wasnt that we just lost, it was that we got blown out. also, kirby is more of a once in a lifetime example esp for a first time hc. mario isnt a first time hc. the expectations are higher for a guy who has 10 years plus of HC exp vs a guy who was in first year as an HC. you can surely see the diff between the two.

2. enough w the saban stuff. mario isnt saban. he nveer will be. no one will be.

i think mario will eventually get it right. i dont think **** be saban, urban this late into his career. he can get us close tho w his recruiting.

 

[mcnaire2004]

1. There are no longer divisions in the ACC.

2. You're not wrong, the coaching stunk and the players quit. HOWEVER, it tends to happen to first-year coaches even when they have talent on paper. Example #1: Kirby Smart, Year 1 at UGA, went 8-5. Lost to Vanderbilt, at home. Lost to GA Tech, at home. Their 2016 recruiting class was ranked #6. Their 2015 class was ranked #6. Their 2014 class was ranked #8. You think they had less talent than Vanderbilt? Less than GA Tech? Of course not, but they lost. Because sometimes it's not ALL ABOUT THAT in Year 1. Those were Richt's kids, with Richt's coaching instilled into them, Richt's attitude, etc. And Kirby's is different. Not always 10000% better (although obviously Kirby has had the success Richt never could), but more than anything, it's different. The next year, 2017, he took basically the same exact roster and lost in OT in the national championship game.

What we saw last year gets no excuses. It was unacceptable on every level. But I think the Head Coach would tell you the same thing, and he's not making excuses. He's just working. He fired his OC, he let his DC walk, he hired a Hall of Famer to coach his defensive line, he brought in an offensive coordinator that this board told me he would NEVER hire because he's a neanderthal and would never run a 21st century offense.....he understands last year was a full diaper lit on fire, and he's working to get the program where he believes it should be. But sometimes, even the elite coaches take a year to get things going in the right direction.

We've all discussed all the scenarios on here ad nauseum. Saban losing to Louisiana Monroe in Year 1. Think Alabama had worse talent than they did? Of course not, but Saban was coaching other people's kids. It takes a minute to have them think, react, and play how you expect them to.

So I'm not sure I'll ever be able to get the stink of 2022 out of my nose. It was goddamed pathetic on every level. But it doesn't mean that Mario nor the kids who were here last year are incapable of winning. Now if we go 5-7 again this year, or even something close to that, all bets are off. I will be the first one in line saying this might not work. But you can't say that now, no matter how bad last year was, because it's literally proven that good coaches can have abominations for first seasons and still work or just fine.

It would be nice if people stopped bringing up other championship coaches year 1 struggles to defend Mario. Here's every championship coach going back to 1900. It includes split titles. The modern era starts at Bob Stoops.

You'll notice Kirby won 8 games in year 1 and 13 in year 2.

This past year was the Single worst season for the U this century and it wasn't close.

 

[Rellyrell]

View attachment 243975
It would be nice if people stopped bringing up other championship coaches year 1 struggles to defend Mario. Here's every championship coach going back to 1900. It includes split titles. The modern era starts at Bob Stoops.

You'll notice Kirby won 8 games in year 1 and 13 in year 2.

This past year was the Single worst season for the U this century and it wasn't close.

Again, look at the coaches who inherited teams w/ a 6-3-1 or worst record, & see the VAST MAJORITY of them turned programs around by year 2, w/ a couple turning them around in yr 1. Anyone who keeps parroting “it takes 5 yrs to build a program” is full of chit or is pacifying mediocrity. Appreciate u providing this intel.

 

[JD08]

Again, look at the coaches who inherited teams w/ a 6-3-1 or worst record, & see the VAST MAJORITY of them turned programs around by year 2, w/ a couple turning them around in yr 1. Anyone who keeps parroting “it takes 5 yrs to build a program” is full of chit or is pacifying mediocrity. Appreciate u providing this intel.

It can take year, (maybe not 5) to turn over the roster and build the recruiting pipelines, but improvement in year 2 is absolutely not an unrealistic goal.

Year 1 was the mother of all **** ups. In hindsight, we'd have been better off with Ponce than Gattis. At least Ponce has a clue.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Again, look at the coaches who inherited teams w/ a 6-3-1 or worst record, & see the VAST MAJORITY of them turned programs around by year 2, w/ a couple turning them around in yr 1. Anyone who keeps parroting “it takes 5 yrs to build a program” is full of chit or is pacifying mediocrity. Appreciate u providing this intel.

100%. As bad as last year was, it's not predictive in whether or not Mario will be a failure here. A similar performance in Year 2 very much is.

With the transfer portal especially, it doesn't take 5 years to turn around a program. I know for a 1000000% fact that the 2024 and 2025 rosters will have more blue-chip talent than the 2023 team will, but that doesn't mean 2023 can't be vastly improved. If Mario is going to do anything here, it has to be much improved from what we did last year.

 

[Rellyrell]

It can take year, (maybe not 5) to turn over the roster and build the recruiting pipelines, but improvement in year 2 is absolutely not an unrealistic goal.

Year 1 was the mother of all **** ups. In hindsight, we'd have been better off with Ponce than Gattis. At least Ponce has a clue.

I’ve stayed by the same philosophy: unless we suffer catastrophic injuries every single yr (which would be another issue in itself) or r saddled w/ sanctions, I give a coach 3 yrs. By year 3, it’ll tell me what I need to know.

If Mario was a 1st yr coach, & inherited a sub .500 program for a couple of seasons, then I could reasonably conclude it should take 4-5 yrs to build; that’s not the case here.

 

[Rellyrell]

100%. As bad as last year was, it's not predictive in whether or not Mario will be a failure here. A similar performance in Year 2 very much is.

With the transfer portal especially, it doesn't take 5 years to turn around a program. I know for a 1000000% fact that the 2024 and 2025 rosters will have more blue-chip talent than the 2023 team will, but that doesn't mean 2023 can't be vastly improved. If Mario is going to do anything here, it has to be much improved from what we did last year.

& again, I’m not saying we should be ACC champs or even 10+ or bust. I’m saying we should win NO LESS than 8 regular games this season. There’s absolutely no excuses y that shouldn’t happen, period. Imo, I’m setting the bar hella low vs. the financial commitment, who the coach is supposed to be, the talent we possess.

 

[hoops156]

100%. As bad as last year was, it's not predictive in whether or not Mario will be a failure here. A similar performance in Year 2 very much is.

With the transfer portal especially, it doesn't take 5 years to turn around a program. I know for a 1000000% fact that the 2024 and 2025 rosters will have more blue-chip talent than the 2023 team will, but that doesn't mean 2023 can't be vastly improved. If Mario is going to do anything here, it has to be much improved from what we did last year.

he will def improve the roster. its his only elite trait as a coach imo and also makes up for some of what he lacks.

you are correct, the five year rebuild is BS. a good coach esp one that is an elite recruiter can win right away. there have been many examples of that recently (which is why I laugh when people joke about USC and Lincoln Riley yet we haven't tasted even close to what they did last year since 2002 and that was year 1 with his worst roster **** have as a USC HC).

Mario had a down year 1. story still has to be written tho as he hes entering year 2 w a new staff and hopefully corrects his mistakes.

well see what happens in the fall. I fell for the BS last offseason from the coaches, but not this year. the interviews are great and sound wonderful, but if the results are the same, it's all BS. win or gtfo

 

[hoops156]

& again, I’m not saying we should be ACC champs or even 10+ or bust. I’m saying we should win NO LESS than 8 regular games this season. There’s absolutely no excuses y that shouldn’t happen, period. Imo, I’m setting the bar hella low vs. the financial commitment, who the coach is supposed to be, the talent we possess.

agreed. I expect 6-8 honestly. I think a big area of improvement has to be the portal imo. we did well at OL through the portal tho.

 

[passitback]

Time will tell.

It aint easy, but it may serve most well to sit back and watch this all unfold.

Rankings lie, coaches lie, recruits lie, game tape and W/L records do not.

We'll know what we need to know soon enough - some may already have him pegged.

We shall see. Hopefully sooner than later.

 

[Silver King]

Thanks for sharing. I know some have said it could take 5 years, including last year, to turn things around. But you brought up an interesting point that I really hadn’t thought much about.

In the past, the ability to completely flip a roster in a short period of time, didn’t exist as it does today. And so with that, I wonder if coaches will NOT be afforded the kind of patience needed to successfully navigate and withstand a 5 year rebuild.

I would have normally dismissed your premise that year two carries the level of importance mentioned in your article but there is some pause there now. While I still don’t agree this year will be a make or break, next year probably is. But my heals aren’t dug in on either account.

That's an old sports axiom: five years. But one of the only times I've ever seen that come true was when Sparky Anderson called it after he was hired in 1979 by the Detroit Tigers and announced they'd win a pennant in five years. The spring before that fifth year, my boss, Tom Monaghan, bought the team. I was hired to run his new yacht, and my first trip was taking him from St. Pete to Bradenton to watch the Tigers play the Pirates. The Tigers started the 1984 Season off on a tear, led wire to wire for the first time since the 1927 Yankees, and won the 1984 World Series. I had the yacht waiting in Chicago, thinking the Cubs were going to hold on to their lead and beat the Padres, but they didn't. I did get to see Walter Payton break Jim Brown's rushing record that Sunday right in front of us in some great front row seats we just walked down and sat in. The freakin' Cubs cost me seeing the World Series, so the next day I headed down the Mississippi for Florida. Here's me giving GM Jim Campbell and Sparky some advice to not get rid of Kirk Gibson at our dock at the Rooster Tail in the Detroit River.

 

[rsa coral gables]

That's an old sports axiom: five years. But one of the only times I've ever seen that come true was when Sparky Anderson called it after he was hired in 1979 by the Detroit Tigers and announced they'd win a pennant in five years. The spring before that fifth year, my boss, Tom Monaghan, bought the team. I was hired to run his new yacht, and my first trip was taking him from St. Pete to Bradenton to watch the Tigers play the Pirates. The Tigers started the 1984 Season off on a tear, led wire to wire for the first time since the 1927 Yankees, and won the 1984 World Series. I had the yacht waiting in Chicago, thinking the Cubs were going to hold on to their lead and beat the Padres, but they didn't. I did get to see Walter Payton break Jim Brown's rushing record that Sunday right in front of us in some great front row seats we just walked down and sat in. The freakin' Cubs cost me seeing the World Series, so the next day I headed down the Mississippi for Florida. Here's me giving GM Jim Campbell and Sparky some advice to not get rid of Kirk Gibson at our dock at the Rooster Tail in the Detroit River. View attachment 244104

great story, great pic. the Reds should NEVER have fired Sparky, he was a fantastic manager. who fires a manager after winning the World Series back to back? i'm glad he won at Detroit

details on the Yacht please.

 

[acento]

A&M game will be crucial for me. I’ll be flying down for it, and I can live with a loss…but it needs to be the right kind of loss. Like we’re in this thing for 3.5 quarters type of deal and we got some bad breaks. Easy bounce-back spots and room to build off that performance with Bethune and Temple after. Win that game, and Miami will be buzzing and should be off to a 5-0 start following the aforementioned two games + a home tilt with GT.

Would put us in a position to potentially be a top 15 squad entering Chapel Hill mid October.

This is every Canes fan at this point after looking at our schedule. And then we’re somehow staring at 2-3 after 5 games.

My expectations are the lowest they’ve probably ever been. I know there’s a lot to be optimistic about, but 12-12 over the past two years has taken a toll on me. 8 wins this year and I’ll be ecstatic

 

[ThomasM]

So you don’t know who we’re playing week one yet you want to make ultimatums about the state of the program and moan on a message board?

Yes, because we've sucked so long I am losing interest. There was a time I lived and breathed Hurricane football. I travelled to away games, bowl games, visited the facilities as a guest, was on field for the Washington beatdown in 01, and so on. Now? I really just don't care to follow a program that is more interested in nepotism than winning football.

I come back here because there are some good people here, and I have enjoyed talking football for 25+ years. I remember the old Grassy days. Eye of the Storm, and all that. Good people. Funny, smart, and generally speaking just good people. It's the program itself that I have grown tired of.

That, and I just don't place much importance on football anymore. People, yes. Football, not so much.

I would like to see some good football from the guys in orange and green, but at this point I no longer expect it.

Bottom line, when a 40+ year fan doesn't care enough to even check the schedule, it's not a good sign. I'm sure you have your calendar with 12 circles, in hopes that every one will end in a W. Good for you. I just don't care that much anymore, and that's a problem for the program. I am not the only one.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

This is every Canes fan at this point after looking at our schedule. And then we’re somehow staring at 2-3 after 5 games.

My expectations are the lowest they’ve probably ever been. I know there’s a lot to be optimistic about, but 12-12 over the past two years has taken a toll on me. 8 wins this year and I’ll be ecstatic

Eight wins this year, and there are posters here that would want Mario fired. Just read the thread.

 

[JgDaCane]

Yes, because we've sucked so long I am losing interest. There was a time I lived and breathed Hurricane football. I travelled to away games, bowl games, visited the facilities as a guest, was on field for the Washington beatdown in 01, and so on. Now? I really just don't care to follow a program that is more interested in nepotism than winning football.

I come back here because there are some good people here, and I have enjoyed talking football for 25+ years. I remember the old Grassy days. Eye of the Storm, and all that. Good people. Funny, smart, and generally speaking just good people. It's the program itself that I have grown tired of.

That, and I just don't place much importance on football anymore. People, yes. Football, not so much.

I would like to see some good football from the guys in orange and green, but at this point I no longer expect it.

Bottom line, when a 40+ year fan doesn't care enough to even check the schedule, it's not a good sign. I'm sure you have your calendar with 12 circles, in hopes that every one will end in a W. Good for you. I just don't care that much anymore, and that's a problem for the program. I am not the only one.

That's one the most real posts I've ever read. I'm still a lunatic who breaks TV's & throws my dip platter off the wall, but I feel you.

 

[Bender]

Pretty interesting look here. This dude has broken down a bunch of data and determined that Junior talent is the best predictor of success. Has us with the 7th most talent in the country as far as rising juniors. This is the COVID class Manny signed in 2021. The Taylor, James Williams, Kam Kinchens class.

Like, its a metric ranking talent. Of course we're gonna rank high when, at the very minimum, two get deserved early round NFL hype (Kinchens and Taylor) and others like George and Smith can be considered contributors that could develop into something better later on.

However, its a metric ranking talent and at the end of it, talent is potential and everyone has potential. Just because you're high on this list doesn't mean **** imo.

We've already established that Gattis sucked historically bad. Thats gonna be the difference from being a 6-win to a 9-win team, having an offense that can score 30 a game on a slightly mediocre day. Dawson is lightyears better compared to Gattis.