All Eyes On Mario

[Ironmanfootball]

Also, it took racist Kurby six years to win his first NC. After stacking talent like crazy every year starting from his first year.

Kirby had a little more to go through to get to the final boss than Miami does.
UGA averaged playing 5 ranked teams / year, including the SEC CG years (but not the PO)
Miami plays less than 3 a year?
Trying to get through that LSU team, Bama, and Auburn every year is a little different than only Clemson and maybe Pitt

 

[Negro-Wan Kanobi]

@Baba Yaga

 

[DTP]

Idk why we're pumping Diaz's record. He likely loses to TAMU because of his **** defense, and the NEW Duke team. Probably beats MTSU. Diaz would've had us 6-6 last year, despite having a much better OC.

The 2021 team beat Duke 47-10. Their new coach isn’t worth 38 points. They also likely score more than 9 friggin points against A&M.

Regardless, it’s not a matter of what Diaz would have done, it’s that UM spent a TON of money on a coach that should have been way better than Manny Diaz right off the bat and he was a total flop.

Nobody believes that the team he inherited was championship caliber. There were a lot of holes to patch. But the 2021 team went 7-5 and was competitive in every game besides Alabama. That includes playing most of the season with their backup quarterback. It’s inexcusable that Mario took that team and not only had a worse record but wasn’t even competitive in half their games. We talked about locker room “cancers” that Manny kept on the team but that team never quit on their season like last year’s team did. That team started 2-4 and lost their quarterback and team leader in week 3. They didn’t throw in the towel on the season at that point. They won 3 straight to get back over .500. Then they lost a heartbreaker to a rival and could have easily shut it down but they went out and won their last two games against VT and Duke. The 2022 team lost to A&M and proceeded to give up on the season and I put that strictly on the coaches.

 

[Arehel]

Kirby had a little more to go through to get to the final boss than Miami does.
UGA averaged playing 5 ranked teams / year, including the SEC CG years (but not the PO)
Miami plays less than 3 a year?
Trying to get through that LSU team, Bama, and Auburn every year is a little different than only Clemson and maybe Pitt

Kirby didn't exactly walk into a disaster of a team and roster either, like Mario has. Remember the UM Athletic Department had a complete overhaul from top to bottom and Mario was part of that. Kirby, did some updating as well, but it was more tweaking as opposed to absolute cultural and systemic shift.
There was talent there, just not enough over at UGA.
You are correct though the schedule and teams that UGA/Kirby go through is tougher then Miami.
All in all each had there own challenges.
Strictly speaking from a schedule perspective, yes I agree with you, tougher road.

 

[DTP]

Kirby had a little more to go through to get to the final boss than Miami does.
UGA averaged playing 5 ranked teams / year, including the SEC CG years (but not the PO)
Miami plays less than 3 a year?
Trying to get through that LSU team, Bama, and Auburn every year is a little different than only Clemson and maybe Pitt

Kirby also went 13-2 in his second season so while he hadn’t won a title yet, they were already becoming one of the dominant programs in college football

 

[Angry Ibis]

Kirby didn't exactly walk into a disaster of a team and roster either, like Mario has. Remember the UM Athletic Department had a complete overhaul from top to bottom and Mario was part of that. Kirby, did some updating as well, but it was more tweaking as opposed to absolute cultural and systemic shift.
There was talent there, just not enough over at UGA.
You are correct though the schedule and teams that UGA/Kirby go through is tougher then Miami.
All in all each had there own challenges.
Strictly speaking from a schedule perspective, yes I agree with you, tougher road.

My question is: If we expected and demanded Manny (Shannon, Golden, etc) win 10 games in that Athletic Department that needed an overhaul, why are we ok with Mario winning 7?

 

[Arehel]

My question is: If we expected and demanded Manny (Shannon, Golden, etc) win 10 games in that Athletic Department that needed an overhaul, why are we ok with Mario winning 7?

That's a very good question.

I think from an outside perspective (i.e., no very little about the AD infrastructure etc.) those HC spoke about the expectations, which is about that area. 9 to 10 win seasons. For Manny, he was in over his head as a HC, I don't think he was ready for an HC position or ever will be. He doesn't understand the complete grind of a HC nor was he a strong enough personality to be able to hold young adult very testosterone driven males accountable and in line, hence the bottom of the roster falling out with zero depth. He was doing just enough to keep the top 30-35 roster happy and he kept patching holes in the dam to just be successful enough to not get fired, hence so many transfers and if it wasn't for Lashlee he would have been DOA way before his due date.
If I remember correctly I think Al Golden was the only one who didn't talk about winning 10 seasons (he is his own story, I think he had a good eye for talent, and his development was actually pretty good considering, just really dug his own grave with D'Onofrio). Shannon was a bit quieter, but he was right after Larry Coker and I think as a fan base we thought Coker was the problem and not the roster and we weren't that far off a extremely successful program. it was until after Randy that we (as a fanbase) started to understand very very slowly that this is gonna be a rebuild.

This is all personal opinion, I think even Mario didn't expect a 5 win season and how it played out (it was very rough looing on the field) but he has been very critical of himself, the program and his players and he has set our expectations to a certain level, as well as as a fan base were getting used to this 7 to 8 wins at Miami (unfortunately), so I think at this point we're willing to eat it for a year or two, assuming that Mario is being real and building an empire, to have the power program it was up until 2004 ish.

 

[Zombie-Cane]

Short answer -- Mario is going to make believers of everyone.

Long answer -- Mario is a machine, and will keep recruiting. While I agree that if Mario shyts the bed this year, we will face a lot of challenges, I don't think he does that. Going into the offseason, we were absolutely on a downward spiral. He fixed coaching, but even with the first round of portalers, I was thinking 6 wins maybe 7. But with the second round of portalers, he's filled pretty much every major hole and added depth across the board. So I'm feeling pretty good that 8.5 is the right target, with the full range being 7-10 Ws, barring a TVD meltdown or injury.

So worst case, a 7 win season, and Mario still lands us the #15 class on paper. He then goes out and hits the portal again to fix the problems, and 2024 is a 8+ win season and back into getting a Top 10 class on paper. We're set back by only a year, despite Gattass, and not derailed from our resurgence. And because his staff includes better evaluators than most others, the players are actually better than what's on paper. We're in the playoffs in 5.

Best case, though, is a 10 win season, which enables Mario to land us the #3 class. We're in the playoffs in 4. ... And I think best case is a higher probability than worst case.

While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, if we are talking about 2024 and the goal is 8+ wins, I would say we have failed.

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

I’m not giving Mario 5 years to turn it around **** nah! in this era with the transfer portal I believe 3 years is more than enough time to expect dramatic improvement.

 

[Rickd]

I’m not giving Mario 5 years to turn it around **** nah! in this era with the transfer portal I believe 3 years is more than enough time to expect dramatic improvement.

There should be a DRAMATIC improvement in 2023 vs 2022 for sure and a better record than 2021. The $8 million dollar man totally mismanaged his staffing in year one ... inexplicably waiting 2.5 months on an OC hire with the hopes that Dorsey would take the job. Idiocy, and amateurish. He could have had Candle if he had done what most HC's do ... hire a coordinator and at least let that coordinator participate in some of his staff hires. Instead he made a panic hire at the last minute that totally blew up in his face. As for the defensive staff ... similar. With all of the time in coaching he didn't know some legit, hungry, talented coaches at smaller programs ready for a move? He had to go to the retirement list and pull a couple of 60+ year old "big names" who had all banked millions from being fired from earlier jobs. They should have hired Alonzo as a staffer first ... then Mario as HC. Great recruiter but Mario has to show he has his **** together in every other facet of football program management and development. 9 win minimum this season ... and two of those 3 losses will hurt. This is the ACC not the SEC.

 

[canesstevealum08]

My question is: If we expected and demanded Manny (Shannon, Golden, etc) win 10 games in that Athletic Department that needed an overhaul, why are we ok with Mario winning 7?

If you look at it 2023 is a mirror image basically of 2022. Gotta believe coaching changes make a diff in the Tamu and unc games those are two checkpoints for me. Being undefeated after those two means 6-0 so there we stopped at A stop sign to me After those two if they go well, expectations should change to 10 wins

 

[DTP]

There should be a DRAMATIC improvement in 2023 vs 2022 for sure and a better record than 2021. The $8 million dollar man totally mismanaged his staffing in year one ... inexplicably waiting 2.5 months on an OC hire with the hopes that Dorsey would take the job. Idiocy, and amateurish. He could have had Candle if he had done what most HC's do ... hire a coordinator and at least let that coordinator participate in some of his staff hires. Instead he made a panic hire at the last minute that totally blew up in his face. As for the defensive staff ... similar. With all of the time in coaching he didn't know some legit, hungry, talented coaches at smaller programs ready for a move? He had to go to the retirement list and pull a couple of 60+ year old "big names" who had all banked millions from being fired from earlier jobs. They should have hired Alonzo as a staffer first ... then Mario as HC. Great recruiter but Mario has to show he has his **** together in every other facet of football program management and development. 9 win minimum this season ... and two of those 3 losses will hurt. This is the ACC not the SEC.

I think he prioritized saving the 2022 recruiting class at the expense of doing a real coaching search. He might have over estimated "Jimmies and Joes over X's and O's". If the changes to the staff for this up[coming season work out (I believe they will), We can chalk the 2022 disaster up as a "no-harm, no foul" type of situation where we sacrificed the short term (2022 season) for long term roster improvement.

 

[hoops156]

That's a very good question.

I think from an outside perspective (i.e., no very little about the AD infrastructure etc.) those HC spoke about the expectations, which is about that area. 9 to 10 win seasons. For Manny, he was in over his head as a HC, I don't think he was ready for an HC position or ever will be. He doesn't understand the complete grind of a HC nor was he a strong enough personality to be able to hold young adult very testosterone driven males accountable and in line, hence the bottom of the roster falling out with zero depth. He was doing just enough to keep the top 30-35 roster happy and he kept patching holes in the dam to just be successful enough to not get fired, hence so many transfers and if it wasn't for Lashlee he would have been DOA way before his due date.
If I remember correctly I think Al Golden was the only one who didn't talk about winning 10 seasons (he is his own story, I think he had a good eye for talent, and his development was actually pretty good considering, just really dug his own grave with D'Onofrio). Shannon was a bit quieter, but he was right after Larry Coker and I think as a fan base we thought Coker was the problem and not the roster and we weren't that far off a extremely successful program. it was until after Randy that we (as a fanbase) started to understand very very slowly that this is gonna be a rebuild.

This is all personal opinion, I think even Mario didn't expect a 5 win season and how it played out (it was very rough looing on the field) but he has been very critical of himself, the program and his players and he has set our expectations to a certain level, as well as as a fan base were getting used to this 7 to 8 wins at Miami (unfortunately), so I think at this point we're willing to eat it for a year or two, assuming that Mario is being real and building an empire, to have the power program it was up until 2004 ish.

good coaches can win early on. you dont need to be a disaster to rebuild. its just mario is who he is. subpar x and o guy, but fantastic recruiter so his way is going to take a while. he has the contract that willl allow him more than enough time so it is what it is. just gotta see what saturdays in the fall look like. idc about the rest of it (speeches, pate videos, recruiting weekends, etc.).

 

[Astcloud11]

The 2021 team beat Duke 47-10. Their new coach isn’t worth 38 points. They also likely score more than 9 friggin points against A&M.

Regardless, it’s not a matter of what Diaz would have done, it’s that UM spent a TON of money on a coach that should have been way better than Manny Diaz right off the bat and he was a total flop.

Nobody believes that the team he inherited was championship caliber. There were a lot of holes to patch. But the 2021 team went 7-5 and was competitive in every game besides Alabama. That includes playing most of the season with their backup quarterback. It’s inexcusable that Mario took that team and not only had a worse record but wasn’t even competitive in half their games. We talked about locker room “cancers” that Manny kept on the team but that team never quit on their season like last year’s team did. That team started 2-4 and lost their quarterback and team leader in week 3. They didn’t throw in the towel on the season at that point. They won 3 straight to get back over .500. Then they lost a heartbreaker to a rival and could have easily shut it down but they went out and won their last two games against VT and Duke. The 2022 team lost to A&M and proceeded to give up on the season and I put that strictly on the coaches.

6-win UVA beat Duke 48-0 last year, but lost to Duke this year. Yeah, last year's team didn't give up..but this year's team didn’t either. They just underperformed consistently.

 

[Timmy T-Bags $$$]

I definitely see your point that by crapping the bed last year that set the program back especially with recruiting. Recruits want to see improvements on the field before they will want to put their futures in the hands of Mario. However, I think going 5-7 might have been better than going 7-5.

First off 7-5 is not going to no move the needle much with elite recruits. Second, our schedule is much harder this year so even winning 8 games isn’t a layup and would only be a 1 game improvement. Now after only winning 5 games last year if we win 8 this year then that’s a 3 game improvement.

I also think 8 games should be our floor with all of the improvements that have been made. It’s also college football and so many things can happen to derail a season that we are not even thinking about before the season starts. Say we only win 7 games and don’t lose badly then you can still sell that as improvement when the season didn’t go as planned.

Just my 2 cents….

 

[Rellyrell]

You're exactly right! View attachment 243448
Here is every coach and team to win a championship this century. I have added Fulmer and Bowden to round out the BCS era. I did look at the 80s and 90s and those were indicative.

-It is a myth that you have to wait for a coach to get their players. That seems to be just an excuse for losers.
-Schools should evaluate by the end of year 2 weather or not to fire coaches
-by year 2, most were within a few scores or a single win from having an argument ro be in the title game.
-most had 10 wins by year 2

Enough of this stacking classes bs. Sure it helps but that only applies to Mac and Dabo. Even Jimbo was a few scores from undefeated regular season in year 2.

Mario needs to win now!

Also, forgot to mention on The Dabo line; it was in year 3 that they won 10+ games & have not won less than 10+ ever since. Chubby Phil (Pause) also won 11 games in yr 3.

One thing that truly irks my nerves r myths that surround this program to justify chit, that’s somehow only applicable to us, but no other schools. I mean a whole chit ton of myths & excuses that’s been debunked by multiple quantifiable, tangible examples!

Like enough is enough; if we look like dog chit again in yr 2, I don’t wanna hear culture, I don’t wanna hear roster, I don’t wanna hear talent, I don’t wanna hear 247 rankings, I don’t wanna hear small, private school, I don’t wanna hear Rome not built in a day, I don’t wanna hear any of it. In fact, I don’t expect to hear any of it, b/c I feel (notice I said feel) that we’ll have a solid season to drive momentum in to yr 3. I feel (notice I said feel) that Mario’s time at UO shows he can be a successful coach here. I saw what he did yr 2 at UO (12-2 w/ a NY6 bowl)…I’m not even looking for those types of results next season. 8+ wins should absolutely be the bench mark; 7 or below, & what’s the difference between him, Shannon, Golden, or Diaz?

 

[Rellyrell]

6-win UVA beat Duke 48-0 last year, but lost to Duke this year. Yeah, last year's team didn't give up..but this year's team didn’t either. They just underperformed consistently.

This makes absolutely no sense. This is the definition of circular reasoning.

 

[mcnaire2004]

Also, forgot to mention on The Dabo line; it was in year 3 that they won 10+ games & have not won less than 10+ ever since. Chubby Phil (Pause) also won 11 games in yr 3.

One thing that truly irks my nerves r myths that surround this program to justify chit, that’s somehow only applicable to us, but no other schools. I mean a whole chit ton of myths & excuses that’s been debunked by multiple quantifiable, tangible examples!

Like enough is enough; if we look like dog chit again in yr 2, I don’t wanna hear culture, I don’t wanna hear roster, I don’t wanna hear talent, I don’t wanna hear 247 rankings, I don’t wanna hear small, private school, I don’t wanna hear Rome not built in a day, I don’t wanna hear any of it. In fact, I don’t expect to hear any of it, b/c I feel (notice I said feel) that we’ll have a solid season to drive momentum in to yr 3. I feel (notice I said feel) that Mario’s time at UO shows he can be a successful coach here. I saw what he did yr 2 at UO (12-2 w/ a NY6 bowl)…I’m not even looking for those types of results next season. 8+ wins should absolutely be the bench mark; 7 or below, & what’s the difference between him, Shannon, Golden, or Diaz?

I agree. It's crazy how much it seeps into the program.

All the fans say (pocket passer)Jacory should scramble more. In the next press conference Jacory says he wants to scramble more.

Fans say our offense is bad because we don't motion. Diaz hires Enos motions 2 times a play.

Fans say we don't celebrate enough and that's why we lose. Man there are examples of failures in every generation but the turnover chain coming out down 30 to Bama sticks out.

Bring back the old players. Practice harder than games. We need to be smaller and faster. We're too small and being pushed around.

Meanwhile we are losing while good coaches are out there running good programs collecting hardware.

Winning 8 games... as the floor I can buy. But his seat should be in flames.

 

[DTP]

6-win UVA beat Duke 48-0 last year, but lost to Duke this year. Yeah, last year's team didn't give up..but this year's team didn’t either. They just underperformed consistently.

Not a coincidence that UVA pulled a Mario and replaced a highly successful pass happy OC with a pro style bum because they were desperate for "balance" and their entire team fell off a cliff. Duke didn't get 38 points better from 2021 to 2022. Miami and UVA got significantly worse.

 

[Astcloud11]

Not a coincidence that UVA pulled a Mario and replaced a highly successful pass happy OC with a pro style bum because they were desperate for "balance" and their entire team fell off a cliff. Duke didn't get 38 points better from 2021 to 2022. Miami and UVA got significantly worse.

Bro...Wake Forest is another example. 45-7 last year. 3 point lost this year. I'm not convinced that Diaz would've beat this year's Duke team. DUKE was the one that gave up last year, giving out blow out wins all over the place.