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Adjustments to the 4-0-4 defense we're seeing?

skyman said:
That Alignment was designed to take away where spread offenses want to live, which is the B gap, B gap is holy grail of spread offense. It takes that away, also make it hard to pull lineman because you have the lineman sitting right there and tough block for tackle. The 4i/3 techniques don’t allow the guards to pull on gap runs or climb on zone runs. This frees up the ILBs and makes them essentially “free” players

They want to stuff that then when running back obviously bounce it your overhang player who is playing down hill fills it quick, plus he can help out in passing game. The best OC in game have been frustrated by it ISU has given Oklahoma **** running it and Venables went to learn it from them and this has been talked about for a couple seasons now so we should of known he would take away..
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Good post!

I (kinda) used it against Palm Beach Gardens in the play-offs last year after they RPO'ed us to death in the 1st quarter. (I didn't know much about the Tite Front and hadn't installed it)

We stayed in 4 techniques and called "pinch" though, which basically put us in a "Tite Front" post-snap rather than lining up in it.

*Pinched both DE's into the B-gaps to take away Inside Zone.
*OLB to the RB's side screaming free off the edge.
*Mike Linebacker was the free player, aligned in a 50-technique, sitting right in the RPO window.

Result was a completely nullified offensive game plan for the following 3 quarters.

Tite is good stuff and I look forward to using it this season.
 
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skyman said:
Havent really seen what he has done this year but one thing we know is Narduzzi wants to load the box and lock up outside.. Good thing we have Harley, Pope and Wiggins to make him pay..
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Pitt LB coach told me they're a heavy Quarters team and that's it's basically Cover-0 the way they play it. (although this was 2 years ago)

The deep-outs by the slot WR's will be there if we want it.
 
LuCane said:
That's a really underwhelming explanation.



I'm interested in your thoughts on why we didn't get our RBs in the pass game early. In anticipation of exactly what they ended up doing to us. Also interested in why we avoided going back to the crossing route after King missed it (he was bumped into by Campbell getting pushed back) to Payton.
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Obviously can't speak Lashlee but my initial thought is 6 man protects keeping the back in. There is definitely those that see a defense like Clemson and get conservative for the sake of not getting your QB hit.

That shallow concept is the 2nd one this season I can remember (first was going the opposite way) being wide open and we did not complete. I would think that would be called more given the separation we got on it.
 
skyman said:
If you get a chance check the way we attack it and what we could have done on same alignment as Clemson







1:37 mark first offensive play, check clemson alignment
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Clemson schemed the **** out of us here. This is a straight up run blitz.

Their OLB slices inside of Brevin Jordan on a b-line to the mesh point...and their ILB is coming around to tackle King if he keeps it.
Meanwhile their Corner and Safety are playing man coverage on our WR and TE.

This is EXACTLY how you defend zone/read, you ATTACK it.

Sad thing is, if Jordan can block either that OLB or that ILB, we may still have a play.
 
Coach Macho said:
Clemson schemed the **** out of us here. This is a straight up run blitz.

Their OLB slices inside of Brevin Jordan on a b-line to the mesh point...and their ILB is coming around to tackle King if he keeps it.
Meanwhile their Corner and Safety are playing man coverage on our WR and TE.

This is EXACTLY how you defend zone/read, you ATTACK it.

Sad thing is, if Jordan can block either that OLB or that ILB, we may still have a play.
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BINGO.. If we just the tackle who isnt blocking anyone just puts a hand on that end or Jordan blocks first guy and we give its a huge play.. In that Mazzone clip its basically the same alignment and you see they dont let those guys on edge go and the result of the play.. Its like we got to page 1 of spread offense and just said we are good, no counters needed..
 
San Amaro Dr said:
Obviously can't speak Lashlee but my initial thought is 6 man protects keeping the back in. There is definitely those that see a defense like Clemson and get conservative for the sake of not getting your QB hit.

That shallow concept is the 2nd one this season I can remember (first was going the opposite way) being wide open and we did not complete. I would think that would be called more given the separation we got on it.
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I guess I just disagree with that disposition.

As for the shallow concept, I'm at a loss for how we allow a team to disrespectfully man us up outside and mostly remain vertical on them. Why?

Lashlee seems like a sharp dude. Lashlee's attitude seems to lean toward aggression. What in the world happened?
 
LuCane said:
I guess I just disagree with that disposition.

As for the shallow concept, I'm at a loss for how we allow a team to disrespectfully man us up outside and mostly remain vertical on them. Why?

Lashlee seems like a sharp dude. Lashlee's attitude seems to lean toward aggression. What in the world happened?
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I am with you. I am not taking a big part of my offense away because I am afraid of sacks. Again I'm only guessing what happened here.

We need to evolve the IZ/RPO game if that's what we are going to live and die by. Start reading defenders opposite the gun back or flipping the back last second.
 
Coach Macho said:
Good post!

I (kinda) used it against Palm Beach Gardens in the play-offs last year after they RPO'ed us to death in the 1st quarter. (I didn't know much about the Tite Front and hadn't installed it)

We stayed in 4 techniques and called "pinch" though, which basically put us in a "Tite Front" post-snap rather than lining up in it.

*Pinched both DE's into the B-gaps to take away Inside Zone.
*OLB to the RB's side screaming free off the edge.
*Mike Linebacker was the free player, aligned in a 50-technique, sitting right in the RPO window.

Result was a completely nullified offensive game plan for the following 3 quarters.

Tite is good stuff and I look forward to using it this season.
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How do you counter Tite on offense?
 
Coach Macho said:
Pitt LB coach told me they're a heavy Quarters team and that's it's basically Cover-0 the way they play it. (although this was 2 years ago)

The deep-outs by the slot WR's will be there if we want it.
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NC State WRs abused the Pitt CBs outside the hashes. Not only 336 yards and 4/0 TD/Int, but Pitt also had like 10 PIs. But the NC state WRs were big body guys with good hands. Not exactly our calling card.

Pitt D is leading the country in havoc tho. they are No. 1 in tackles for loss. They also have 22 passes defended. So they like to play aggressive, but don’t have the talent at every position group like Clemson does.
 
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I was frustrated that it took an entire half for baker to adjust to quick outside throws and throwbacks that are on tape for then and beating us every game for years but lashlee was on another level of bad.

I guess if you smash a square peg into a round hole long enough the hole might eventually break
 
Bust out Nebraska's old playbook with King and company and let her rip. I'm kidding, somewhat, but they sure as **** wouldn't know what hit them.
 
Lashlee should of google or youtube what some high school youtube guy adjustments he could do, just sitting getting raped on national tv.. smh

 
LuCane said:
I guess I just disagree with that disposition.

As for the shallow concept, I'm at a loss for how we allow a team to disrespectfully man us up outside and mostly remain vertical on them. Why?

Lashlee seems like a sharp dude. Lashlee's attitude seems to lean toward aggression. What in the world happened?
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If there was ever a game that calls for the horizontal aspect of spread concepts, it was this one. UVag nickel-and-dimed Clemson all night and had twice the yards we did. They has 24 completions for 270 yards. Avg'd 4 yards a carry. They had six plays of 10 yards or more, including 22, 23, 28, and 31. We tried to win by throwing deep balls, which we haven't been good at all year.

I hope to see a little more intellect vs. Pitt.
 
Coach Macho said:
Every respectable OC I know says that the Odd Tite front (4i-0-4i) is an absolute *****. Makes it extremely hard to run Inside Zone, Zone Read and RPO's.

The best OC I know personally know says that you won't get Inside Zone, just forget it. You have to add a TE to create another gap or attempt to hit the edges.

I'm no OC but I think being able to throw the ball on early downs probably helps.
We definitely need to show more diversity in our running game though. We've shown like 3 running plays the entire year. Maybe our Offensive Line isn't good enough yet? I don't know.

I'd like to see some Speed Option to get King and our RB's on the edge.
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skyman said:
That Alignment was designed to take away where spread offenses want to live, which is the B gap, B gap is holy grail of spread offense. It takes that away, also make it hard to pull lineman because you have the lineman sitting right there and tough block for tackle. The 4i/3 techniques don’t allow the guards to pull on gap runs or climb on zone runs. This frees up the ILBs and makes them essentially “free” players

They want to stuff that then when running back obviously bounce it your overhang player who is playing down hill fills it quick, plus he can help out in passing game. The best OC in game have been frustrated by it ISU has given Oklahoma **** running it and Venables went to learn it from them and this has been talked about for a couple seasons now so we should of known he would take away..
Click to expand...
Thank you both for your insight, it's good to read about the nuts and bolts of football sometimes.
 
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skyman said:
The 4i/3 techniques don’t allow the guards to pull on gap runs or climb on zone runs. This frees up the ILBs and makes them essentially “free” players
Click to expand...
You can run a gap scheme vs a 4i, but I wouldn't down block a 4i with the play-side tackle, they have em' there for a reason. I'd try kickin' em' out with the backside Guard or an H-Back.
 
We don't seem to have any run game answers to this alignment, which we saw yet again.

The trips sets and the long handoffs have helped, but we don't really get any movement in the running game.

Would like to see more creativity, but the interior OL is starting to look like a problem.

As others have said, we have three centers on the interior, and none of them get movement.

Where is Cleveland Reed? Do we start seeing more of Jalen Rivers?

UVA was GASSED the entire second half, and they were still stoning us.
 
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