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2022 TE Riley-Ducker "extremely interested" in UM, planning visit

Ethnicsands

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“The tradition of the tight end at Miami is becoming an automatic ticket to the league."

Context is a little different, but the last thing we need is a guy who thinks you just show up and it gets handed to you. That alone is probably the single biggest problem Miami has had in the last 20 years.
See, half this board thinks the best thing our staff can do is sell NFL success at TE and DE to prospects at those positions.

If we do that, then they repeat back to reporters basically what we've sold them on, the other half of the board says 'whoa, that's not the attitude we want to see.'

I happen to agree with you on this one, I'm over the NFLU thing and want to see guys who want to win in college, not pass through it. But it's interesting to see the consequences of the sales pitch we have people itching to run with.
 

gogeta4

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See, half this board thinks the best thing our staff can do is sell NFL success at TE and DE to prospects at those positions.

If we do that, then they repeat back to reporters basically what we've sold them on, the other half of the board says 'whoa, that's not the attitude we want to see.'

I happen to agree with you on this one, I'm over the NFLU thing and want to see guys who want to win in college, not pass through it. But it's interesting to see the consequences of the sales pitch we have people itching to run with.
Ive BEEN over the nfl u thing....BUT that being said....there are no lies told at those 2 positions.

For a TE or DE to actually make it to the nfl from here they would have to PRODUCE. Those productions..lead to Wins.
I wish a relative of mine would of chose Um as a te prospect instead of our biggest rivals because he wanted to "win" in college. He wouldve likely been developed and counting nfl checks currently. Also t here isnt the other half of the board with that..mostly just you and maybe 2 other posters lol

Its the damn reason we got Brevin Jordan and Mallory. Ninja traveled all the way from Vegas to put on for us...and Mallory and his dad whom is an nfl coach made an educated decision to play here because even they know that we PRODUCE and develop TE's.

*We also havent had much consequences either. We pretty much land who we want at TE and turn down big time players...I mean sh*t look at our TE board this class of 2022 its a who's who of freak athletes and we likely have to turn away bonafide studs
 

Ethnicsands

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Ive BEEN over the nfl u thing....BUT that being said....there are no lies told at those 2 positions.

For a TE or DE to actually make it to the nfl from here they would have to PRODUCE. Those productions..lead to Wins.
I wish a relative of mine would of chose Um as a te prospect instead of our biggest rivals because he wanted to "win" in college. He wouldve likely been developed and counting nfl checks currently. Also t here isnt the other half of the board with that..mostly just you and maybe 2 other posters lol

Its the damn reason we got Brevin Jordan and Mallory. Ninja traveled all the way from Vegas to put on for us...and Mallory and his dad whom is an nfl coach made an educated decision to play here because even they know that we PRODUCE and develop TE's.

*We also havent had much consequences either. We pretty much land who we want at TE and turn down big time players...I mean sh*t look at our TE board this class of 2022 its a who's who of freak athletes and we likely have to turn away bonafide studs
I definitely ain't saying there are lies being told. And I don't deny that some kids will find the nfl pitch compelling at some positions. Part of my point is that cuts against us at plenty of other positions. Manny needs to sell the U, not just the NFL at a couple spots. Sure, use whatever you can over the recruiting cycle to convince each and every kid, but from a recruiting perspective, we have our biggest needs at spots we don't have a compelling pitch at if the NFL is the basis of the pitch. So what's our pitch at CB, LB, OL, WR? Hope it's compelling. Also, like you, I'm of the view the NFL U thing isn't the solution for us. We need to be Miami U not NFL U.

Second, the class of '22 doesn't tell me that much about TEs, because none have signed anywhere. Arroyo, Jordan and Mallory were top 10+ prospects at TE. Those guys and Standish Dobard are our only top 10 TEs in a decade. Not bad but not what people think. We've done quite well at evaluating TEs, is the thing. Guys like Herndon, Njoku, Walford outperformed their rankings. I expect Arroyo to, also.
 

gogeta4

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I definitely ain't saying there are lies being told. And I don't deny that some kids will find the nfl pitch compelling at some positions. Part of my point is that cuts against us at plenty of other positions. Manny needs to sell the U, not just the NFL at a couple spots. Sure, use whatever you can over the recruiting cycle to convince each and every kid, but from a recruiting perspective, we have our biggest needs at spots we don't have a compelling pitch at if the NFL is the basis of the pitch. So what's our pitch at CB, LB, OL, WR? Hope it's compelling. Also, like you, I'm of the view the NFL U thing isn't the solution for us. We need to be Miami U not NFL U.

Second, the class of '22 doesn't tell me that much about TEs, because none have signed anywhere. Arroyo, Jordan and Mallory were top 10+ prospects at TE. Those guys and Standish Dobard are our only top 10 TEs in a decade. Not bad but not what people think. We've done quite well at evaluating TEs, is the thing. Guys like Herndon, Njoku, Walford outperformed their rankings. I expect Arroyo to, also.
Stay on task.

This is a thread about a te. I dont know why other positions are being brought in.

I dont know what his pitch is to other positions. But when it comes to TE's...THAT SHOULD BE THE PITCH. Wanna know why those guys out perform their rankings...because we PRODUCE and Utilize the TE. It aint hard. Your doing mental gymnastics trying to spin a good thing for our program away for what reason other than being a mope i dont know.

Did you see Nick Saban's pitch to a recruit the other day?> Was he pitching"the university of alabama" or himself and the accomplishments?.
We recruit certain traits at te....who really cares about "rankings" (you talking baout top 10) If we are landing the top guys on "the coaches" board. That being said...we have our pick at that position every year..and last class was Noooo different. Dont see it changing with this class.

Te isnt a worry. Its who we want i mean we have proverbial locks like Russel Maryland's son in this class. Locally we might not even pursue a te that hard.
 

Ethnicsands

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Stay on task.

This is a thread about a te. I dont know why other positions are being brought in.

I dont know what his pitch is to other positions. But when it comes to TE's...THAT SHOULD BE THE PITCH. Wanna know why those guys out perform their rankings...because we PRODUCE and Utilize the TE. It aint hard. Your doing mental gymnastics trying to spin a good thing for our program away for what reason other than being a mope i dont know.

Did you see Nick Saban's pitch to a recruit the other day?> Was he pitching"the university of alabama" or himself and the accomplishments?.
We recruit certain traits at te....who really cares about "rankings" (you talking baout top 10) If we are landing the top guys on "the coaches" board. That being said...we have our pick at that position every year..and last class was Noooo different. Dont see it changing with this class.

Te isnt a worry. Its who we want i mean we have proverbial locks like Russel Maryland's son in this class. Locally we might not even pursue a te that hard.
You're projecting on me. I'm not moping and I'm not spinning. Not even sure why you think I am. None of this is about that.

Do what you need to do to recruit, I guess. But if you think it doesn't matter how we sell or how it fits together, well, maybe that's why it ain't fit together all that well for a long while.

As for Saban, I commented in that thread that it works for him but Larry Coker used a version of that pitch and it sure didn't work for Coker - the big differences are evaluations (Coker didn't do them) and Alabama's got a business culture not a country club culture.

Also, in the comment I made that you took as 'mope,' if you go back and re-read it, all I did was respond to someone saying we're 'the No.1 destination in the country for DEs' because this draft, and all I said was 'it ain't that obvious.' Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State sure won't concede we're better than them at DL.

People read too much into posts around here. If I can't comment on whether the NFL pitch is the best way to recruit on a recruiting board, then don't know what we're here for.
 

gogeta4

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You're projecting on me. I'm not moping and I'm not spinning. Not even sure why you think I am. None of this is about that.

Do what you need to do to recruit, I guess. But if you think it doesn't matter how we sell or how it fits together, well, maybe that's why it ain't fit together all that well for a long while.

As for Saban, I commented in that thread that it works for him but Larry Coker used a version of that pitch and it sure didn't work for Coker - the big differences are evaluations (Coker didn't do them) and Alabama's got a business culture not a country club culture.

Also, in the comment I made that you took as 'mope,' if you go back and re-read it, all I did was respond to someone saying we're 'the No.1 destination in the country for DEs' because this draft, and all I said was 'it ain't that obvious.' Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State sure won't concede we're better than them at DL.

People read too much into posts around here. If I can't comment on whether the NFL pitch is the best way to recruit on a recruiting board, then don't know what we're here for.
I didnt see that...and I agree. Those teams have been doing it for awhile, we still may have more #s in the league though..with all the back end guys we get hanging on rosters.
-EVALUATIONS are KEY. Which is why i seldom refer to recruiting site rankings.In fact i never know where we rank at the end of a class. I just focus on who are..or should be our main targets.

But if you truly have a concern on how we recruit the te position...i dont know what to tell you. Its literally the only position that i never have a concern in recruiting. We turn away guys...and evaluate that position really well regardless of who is the oc.

I dont know about the fitting together part your talking about in recruiting?.

Also how hard is it to EVALUATE...when you land all 5 stars(Bama)..You think they just have a better eye than everybody. No...they offer every last 5 star in the country. Yearly they have out more "offers" than we do...something i think needs to change a bit as well.
 

Ethnicsands

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I didnt see that...and I agree. Those teams have been doing it for awhile, we still may have more #s in the league though..with all the back end guys we get hanging on rosters.
-EVALUATIONS are KEY. Which is why i seldom refer to recruiting site rankings.In fact i never know where we rank at the end of a class. I just focus on who are..or should be our main targets.

But if you truly have a concern on how we recruit the te position...i dont know what to tell you. Its literally the only position that i never have a concern in recruiting. We turn away guys...and evaluate that position really well regardless of who is the oc.

I dont know about the fitting together part your talking about in recruiting?.

Also how hard is it to EVALUATE...when you land all 5 stars(Bama)..You think they just have a better eye than everybody. No...they offer every last 5 star in the country. Yearly they have out more "offers" than we do...something i think needs to change a bit as well.
You're just mis-reading me. I literally complimented our TE recruiting by pointing out our EVALUATIONS were good because we took several lesser ranked kids the past decade that really outperformed their rankings. TE and DE are the two positions we've actually evaluated the best consistently. But if I point that out, then someone says he I'm denigrating our recruiting. Not at all. Like you, I don't care about rankings for their own sake.

I don't care if we use TEU as a way to recruit TEs. I do care that we damn well better figure out how to recruit CBs, LBs, WRs and OL and don't have NFLU as the argument. That's my main point. My second point is the NFLU thing looks to me correlated to kids who jump too early. Maybe we've got that fixed - this coming year we have most kids back. But the past decade it ain't worked too well for us.

My main thing is I'm here to see us win in college, not produce guys who win in the pros. That should be a result of college success, not an alternative to it.

Re Alabama, I couldn't disagree with you more. We've had a lot of threads on this. Their consistency and success in finding kids who work for their team and culture is really impressive. Yes, they have access to whoever they want. They still only get 25 spots, they still have to prioritize, and they still have to avoid the kids who don't pan out. If you look at the top rated kids UM brought in the past 15 years, our results prove that 5* kids don't all work out equally well.
 

24/7canes

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if you saw Sabans pitch then you 100% sell the NFL angel. Its 100% on every hs recruits mind. You sell the education to the parents. As most of you guys know the parents are always so proud of them boys when they graduate with that degree.
 

gogeta4

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You're just mis-reading me. I literally complimented our TE recruiting by pointing out our EVALUATIONS were good because we took several lesser ranked kids the past decade that really outperformed their rankings. TE and DE are the two positions we've actually evaluated the best consistently. But if I point that out, then someone says he I'm denigrating our recruiting. Not at all. Like you, I don't care about rankings for their own sake.

I don't care if we use TEU as a way to recruit TEs. I do care that we damn well better figure out how to recruit CBs, LBs, WRs and OL and don't have NFLU as the argument. That's my main point. My second point is the NFLU thing looks to me correlated to kids who jump too early. Maybe we've got that fixed - this coming year we have most kids back. But the past decade it ain't worked too well for us.

My main thing is I'm here to see us win in college, not produce guys who win in the pros. That should be a result of college success, not an alternative to it.

Re Alabama, I couldn't disagree with you more. We've had a lot of threads on this. Their consistency and success in finding kids who work for their team and culture is really impressive. Yes, they have access to whoever they want. They still only get 25 spots, they still have to prioritize, and they still have to avoid the kids who don't pan out. If you look at the top rated kids UM brought in the past 15 years, our results prove that 5* kids don't all work out equally well.
Completely disagree on Bama.lol

5 star recruits backing up 5 star recruits. It aint really hard they are recruiting THE BEST KIDS IN THE COUNTRY. And if you arent up to par you are processed out. I mean just look at wr for example...that whole developed wr wasnt something we didnt see coming. Look at their wr class THIS YEAR again. Its essentially the top wide outs in the country and florida. It isnt impressive to me. Its easy to avoid kids who dont pan out when there is a 5 star coming in or right behind them.

Most schools if you sign a 5 star at a position it wil be hard to land one the next class at that spot. But they have the advantage of front running kids committing who get bags and promises of ..you guessed it..getting them to the nfl and playing for chips.

Clemson is more impressive to me honestly..because they kind of do what you say. Not Bama. They just load up on the elite of the elite in a stacked deck. There are guys on Clemsons team that wont even play here for us honestly. I havent liked a Clemson linebaker during their whole entire run except the 1st round pick from last year. I dont think they had guys that would of started over Pinkney or Quarterman.
 

Ethnicsands

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Completely disagree on Bama.lol

5 star recruits backing up 5 star recruits. It aint really hard they are recruiting THE BEST KIDS IN THE COUNTRY. And if you arent up to par you are processed out. I mean just look at wr for example...that whole developed wr wasnt something we didnt see coming. Look at their wr class THIS YEAR again. Its essentially the top wide outs in the country and florida. It isnt impressive to me. Its easy to avoid kids who dont pan out when there is a 5 star coming in or right behind them.

Most schools if you sign a 5 star at a position it wil be hard to land one the next class at that spot. But they have the advantage of front running kids committing who get bags and promises of ..you guessed it..getting them to the nfl and playing for chips.

Clemson is more impressive to me honestly..because they kind of do what you say. Not Bama. They just load up on the elite of the elite in a stacked deck. There are guys on Clemsons team that wont even play here for us honestly. I havent liked a Clemson linebaker during their whole entire run except the 1st round pick from last year. I dont think they had guys that would of started over Pinkney or Quarterman.
I never said a word about them developing anything. You're projecting I don't know what onto me. I said they EVALUATE well. They do. It's indisputable. There's a reason they're in an unprecedented run.

We recruit top WRs and they're named Moore, Jolla, Leggett. It's not just the stars they get right. If you don't see that, you're the one who's blinding yourself.

I ain't crapping on us. It is what it is. I'd like to see us do it better, and I don't mind taking clues from elsewhere when others do it better than we do.

Clemson, I agree also - they're BOTH great evaluators, but Clemson has followed a different blueprint. They may need to change/adapt because Alabama upped the ante. But my point is both of them pick well within the choices they have. That's evaluating.

/To be honest, I don't think Alabama develops any better than any of the other top programs. I think they recruit better, evaluate better, and have a competitive system where the best guys compete against the best and grow from it. If you credit that to Bama fine, but they're not doing anything special or different, IMO, on development. Their coaches turn over almost every damn year. Saban maintains the overall culture, and the kids beat the **** out of each other and the best 'develop.'
 

gogeta4

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I never said a word about them developing anything. You're projecting I don't know what onto me. I said they EVALUATE well. They do. It's indisputable. There's a reason they're in an unprecedented run.

We recruit top WRs and they're named Moore, Jolla, Leggett. It's not just the stars they get right. If you don't see that, you're the one who's blinding yourself.

I ain't crapping on us. It is what it is. I'd like to see us do it better, and I don't mind taking clues from elsewhere when others do it better than we do.

Clemson, I agree also - they're BOTH great evaluators, but Clemson has followed a different blueprint. They may need to change/adapt because Alabama upped the ante. But my point is both of them pick well within the choices they have. That's evaluating.

/To be honest, I don't think Alabama develops any better than any of the other top programs. I think they recruit better, evaluate better, and have a competitive system where the best guys compete against the best and grow from it. If you credit that to Bama fine, but they're not doing anything special or different, IMO, on development. Their coaches turn over almost every damn year. Saban maintains the overall culture, and the kids beat the **** out of each other and the best 'develop.'
They arent evaluating sh*t.
They are offering multiple 5 star recruits. We got Moore, Jolla, Leggett and after that...what?. They get Moore,Jolla,Leggett one year..and then Moore, Jolla, Leggett the next year..followed by Moore and Jolla...one of them are gonna hit my man lol.

Bama doesnt pick well between the choices...they have the top pick of everything. Again what Clemson does is evaluate. Because at times they would take a lower type guy that fits whatever dabo has going on over there. Bama aint doing that at all.

For example the wr Clemson landedf from Ft Lauderdale this class...I dont even think he is/was all that but Dabo was all in on him and landed him.

Literally every South Florida wr they got I an most on the board stated they would go up there and be what they would be and start over whatever other 5 stars they got at those poisitions. Guess we are all great evaluators as well.
With Bama For example....Their current starting safety Jordan Battle begged for an OSU offer. Got it...committed. Bama misses out on whomever..pivots to that kid late in the game and flips him.
 

Ethnicsands

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They arent evaluating sh*t.
They are offering multiple 5 star recruits. We got Moore, Jolla, Leggett and after that...what?. They get Moore,Jolla,Leggett one year..and then Moore, Jolla, Leggett the next year..followed by Moore and Jolla...one of them are gonna hit my man lol.

Bama doesnt pick well between the choices...they have the top pick of everything. Again what Clemson does is evaluate. Because at times they would take a lower type guy that fits whatever dabo has going on over there. Bama aint doing that at all.

For example the wr Clemson landedf from Ft Lauderdale this class...I dont even think he is/was all that but Dabo was all in on him and landed him.

Literally every South Florida wr they got I an most on the board stated they would go up there and be what they would be and start over whatever other 5 stars they got at those poisitions. Guess we are all great evaluators as well.
With Bama For example....Their current starting safety Jordan Battle begged for an OSU offer. Got it...committed. Bama misses out on whomever..pivots to that kid late in the game and flips him.
I disagree on Alabama. They built to where they are by being damn good at evals. People don’t sufficiently appreciate how they got there. Bags ain’t nothing new. They ain’t the only ones. Saban is a fantastic evaluator. Don’t see how anyone can deny that but whatever. If you want to be blinded and say it’s just 5*s, no problem.

I gave you our 5* WR example. At LB it was WW and A Brown. At DT, Forston. At OL, Youngblood and McMeans. At RB Lingard and Duke (who I loved). CB was Tracy Howard. If you think we got a great or even average collection of 5*s, you’re deceiving yourself. I’d acknowledge most were guys we’d have taken no matter their ranking, so I don’t put it entirely on evals, but the fact is our 5*s haven’t performed great. In fact, two of the best 5* guys we have had were transfers - Phillips and Willis.
 

gogeta4

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I disagree on Alabama. They built to where they are by being damn good at evals. People don’t sufficiently appreciate how they got there. Bags ain’t nothing new. They ain’t the only ones. Saban is a fantastic evaluator. Don’t see how anyone can deny that but whatever. If you want to be blinded and say it’s just 5*s, no problem.

I gave you our 5* WR example. At LB it was WW and A Brown. At DT, Forston. At OL, Youngblood and McMeans. At RB Lingard and Duke (who I loved). CB was Tracy Howard. If you think we got a great or even average collection of 5*s, you’re deceiving yourself. I’d acknowledge most were guys we’d have taken no matter their ranking, so I don’t put it entirely on evals, but the fact is our 5*s haven’t performed great. In fact, two of the best 5* guys we have had were transfers - Phillips and Willis.
YOU ARENT GETTING IT.

YOUR LISTING 5 STAR PLAYERS FROM I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL (Willie Williams)

Do you realize that EVERY YEAR they are landing a Willie Williams, there isnt a gap in between. They arent just evaluating better...they are loading up on them. When we had our chance to do that we had Coker as a coach. Add to it we are in a state with 2 other legitimate powerhouse program and where the whole nation comes into recruit..unlike Bama.

Im a Miramar guy.. but there is no way Tracy Howard should have been a 5 star.

When you dont have 5 stras to perform great..it kind of lightens the blow when the incoming freshman is another 5 star.

Braylen Ingraham was aborderline 5 star type and he is in his 3rd year there with 2 more tackles than me and you.

*Also realize the recruiting climate has change drasiclly since early 2000s. We were the top dog on the scene and whomever we offered received a star at minimum bump. Guys like Mcmenas would never be a 5 star intodays climate.
 

Ethnicsands

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YOU ARENT GETTING IT.

YOUR LISTING 5 STAR PLAYERS FROM I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL (Willie Williams)

Do you realize that EVERY YEAR they are landing a Willie Williams, there isnt a gap in between. They arent just evaluating better...they are loading up on them. When we had our chance to do that we had Coker as a coach. Add to it we are in a state with 2 other legitimate powerhouse program and where the whole nation comes into recruit..unlike Bama.

Im a Miramar guy.. but there is no way Tracy Howard should have been a 5 star.

When you dont have 5 stras to perform great..it kind of lightens the blow when the incoming freshman is another 5 star.

Braylen Ingraham was aborderline 5 star type and he is in his 3rd year there with 2 more tackles than me and you.

*Also realize the recruiting climate has change drasiclly since early 2000s. We were the top dog on the scene and whomever we offered received a star at minimum bump. Guys like Mcmenas would never be a 5 star intodays climate.
Oh, I’m getting it. You’re not, imo. You’re so distracted by their recruiting success you’re blinded to their evaluation success. I’d encourage you take study statistics. Our hit rate is worse than theirs, and it should be the opposite because we aren’t sitting 5* kids behind other 5* kids. I appreciate they get lots of top kids. Saban is really good at placing his bets.

I 100% agree howard was overrated. So was lingard, youngblood, moore, leggett, forston, mcmeans and a brown. But it is what it is. Are their 5* guys overrated? They just evaluate well.

Mcmeans didn’t get a bump after we offered i don’t think, just as an aside. I recall he was hyped and coker offered him because of the hype (because that’s what coker did). mcmeans was some 25 year old former marine who went to lackawanna (where mckinnie went) and the hype machine just ran with the story. Neither here nor there, just sayin.

i do agree that stars follow the programs that are perceived as good evaluators, more or less.

ingraham is an interesting guy. He looked like he could become an alabama dl. but he wasn’t as highly rated as some guys they’ve taken. Don’t know if he’s trap[ed by the depth chart or just not that good. I remember thinking he’s worth a take but like you say, borderline, not obvious.
 

CANEMC

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How does 1 school have 2 freaks at TE of all positions

Their HC modeled his offense behind Oregon's and the rest is history. The best of the best come to play in it. Also, it's rare that kids play both ways at Belle West. He likes them to focus on one position like college ball. Which is why you won't find any film of Micah or Kaden on defense. And they'd both be hella nice at DE.
 
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