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“Positionless” Defense

scrantoncane

scrantoncane

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@DMoney comment got me thinking about this. Does anyone know of any team that actually does this?

It seems like every off-season we hear about all these subpackages (Chaney & Knighton together, for example) then it never happens.

We are clearly loaded in the secondary, and weak at LB. With Carter’s move to striker & K Smith to LB, it’s easy to see those 2 plus Bolden & Hall playing at the same time.

Would we play more DBs than that? Can you run it as a base package without getting gashed on the ground? Can guys learn the nuisances of essentially a new position, if they aren’t practicing it every day?

I think a lot depends on whether we get a quality LB in the portal. If not, I don’t see how there aren’t either more position changes, or a move towards a positionless defense. Too much DB talent, and not enough LB talent. If I see Ragone on the field while Tae is on the bench, I’m gonna punch my tv screen.
 
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You might see sub package against a predominantly passing type team but we just seem to have an over abundance of safety striker types while other areas kinda lack.. The closest I can think of was clemson against lsu for championship a year ago.. they had tons of dbs on field to try to combat joe burrow.. still got murked..
 
Rogone was on the field last year because he was the only player at linebacker that knew the playbook and was dependable. We have lots of more talented young men but if you don't no the playbook your not getting quality minutes.
 
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Manny and Shoop need to go and speak to Coach Spo about his "positionless" theory he used during the Big 3 era. We have the athletes on D to implement alot of "positionless" packages especially when Bama goes 4 wide on us and tries to get their WRs on our LBs one on one in space.
 
Maybe a better term is "flex" or "variable" defense. But guys need to assume positions and the roles that come with it on each play even if they alternate during course of the game. But I kind of get what you are getting at.
 
Canes Legacy said:
There was a package during the spring game where it was Carter, Tae, Keontra, Hall, Ivey, and Riq as the 6 DBs on the field with 1 LB (Flagg) and 4 DL.

We talked about it on our show last night. Once I post it in a thread I'll tag you so you can take a look.
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What I love about this package with our current players is that Flagg is smart, instinctive and knows where the play is going, but Has limited speed. However, with 6 DB’s on the field, you have plenty of overall speed and still get the use of Flagg’s brain and instincts.
 
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A 6 db package with Flagg in the middle can work if the right personnel is selected. Would need the bigger DT's on the field & better edge setting d ends to not be so vulnerable vs the run. I'd have Keontra & J Will on the field together as my ideal pairing flanking Flagg.
 
Jassid82 said:
when Bama goes 4 wide on us and tries to get their WRs on our LBs one on one in space.
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This is where I’d worry about getting gashed on the ground. Spread our D wide, then run it up the middle against our undisciplined DL and questionable LBs.

I think it’d be much easier to implement in the Big 12. Not sure it’d work vs teams like Pitt. And, again, my question is can you really run it with success if you aren’t practicing it enough? If you’re only going to use it against UNC or pass heavy teams, you’re not gonna get the reps to run it effectively.

**just looked at our schedule to see who it might work against... what a cupcake schedule
 
Damiencane86 said:
A 6 db package with Flagg in the middle can work if the right personnel is selected. Would need the bigger DT's on the field & better edge setting d ends to not be so vulnerable vs the run. I'd have Keontra & J Will on the field together as my ideal pairing flanking Flagg.
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I mentioned Hall to striker in another thread, but LB might work too. I was very high on Hall as a prospect, but he doesn’t have enough range and he isn’t great in space. He is basically Amari Carter without the ejections.

To me, Tae looks like our best safety prospect since Kenny Phillips. Rangy and can hit. Prototype safety. If he improves his discipline, him and Bolden is a **** of a safety duo. Seems like a great spot to move Hall closer to the LOS.
 
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scrantoncane said:
This is where I’d worry about getting gashed on the ground. Spread our D wide, then run it up the middle against our undisciplined DL and questionable LBs.

I think it’d be much easier to implement in the Big 12. Not sure it’d work vs teams like Pitt. And, again, my question is can you really run it with success if you aren’t practicing it enough? If you’re only going to use it against UNC or pass heavy teams, you’re not gonna get the reps to run it effectively.

**just looked at our schedule to see who it might work against... what a cupcake schedule
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This is true but i was hoping that is why they were experimenting with the front 4 of Harvey-Ford-Miller-Johnson all Spring. That front 4 should be more than stout against the run (one would hope) and the LBs just have to make the **** play. That said, I agree with you, the way our LB play is it could be a bloodbath too. Brian Robinson looks like a grown man. And we have a cub at MLB. (Flagg)
 
I don’t like it. They can try and be ahead of the curve all they want but you still need LBers to be LBers. You need at least 2 guys who can find the ball carrier or UNC is your fate. They don’t have to be the traditional 6’2 240 guy anymore but you still need a bit of size and instincts.
 
It’s nothing new. He was basically saying having multiple DBs on the field instead of LBs in passing situations
 
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Zbrod95 said:
I don’t like it. They can try and be ahead of the curve all they want but you still need LBers to be LBers. You need at least 2 guys who can find the ball carrier or UNC is your fate. They don’t have to be the traditional 6’2 240 guy anymore but you still need a bit of size and instincts.
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He was talking about on passing downs
 
252cane said:
It’s nothing new. He was basically saying having multiple DBs on the field instead of LBs in passing situations
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What you are referring to would be a basic dime defense, which you’d typically see against 4-5 wide sets. I don’t think that is what D$ meant, as he didn’t mention passing situations like you did. And it’s not what I was getting at when I started the thread.

I’m talking more about guys taking on new roles... specifically some of the safeties and strikers as LBs. We’ve been moving towards it for 2 years now: first, with the implementation of the striker position, and now with K Smith to LB. I’m talking about going full Madden mode, where we call plays like it’s a 4-3/nickel base, but sub in strikers/safeties for LBs. I just question whether it can actually work.

Even if coaches had a playbook for it, idk if the players would be able to pick up on it. Knowing your keys would be difficult. Motion and pre-snap shifts would require a lot of communication and intelligence to run it effectively. You’d definitely need a Shaq, QB of the defense type guy to line guys up properly.

Im going off the rails here a little, but I think it’s an interesting concept. Essentially, get our best players on the field, regardless of position. The NBA evolved into that, and with modern offenses, I’m not sure CFB is too far behind. It’s what makes guys like K Smith so valuable.
 
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