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Learning from your surroundings

Learning from your surroundings

LuCane

Comments (63)

Herman, McElwain, all first year coaches that when you see their on the field performance you know they stand out and that what they picked up from their mentors is intertwined with what they themselves bring to the table.

Take Fuente, he runs his program exactly as Patterson runs his, but Fuente brings a great coaching acumen especially on the offensive side of the ball. So it creates a highly effective combination between what the student learned and what he himself brings to the table.

With a guy like mario, you lose half of the equation. He may pick up the organizational structure, S&C regimen, scheduling, recruiting, etc from Saban, but what does he personally bring that he can combine with what he learned that he can make it into a successful experience at Miami?

The idea of hiring someone because they learned under a great coach is flawed if that person doesn't bring something tangible to the table that they can integrate with what they learned
 
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The elephant in the room is that Mario is an idiot. He is not a smart guy. 99% of successful football coaches are very smart individuals. They might not always come across as such but you can not be successful as a HC without being incredibly intelligent.

Mario is an idiot. His tenure at FIU both on the field and off the field should tell you everything you need to know about him. He could spend the next 4 years bouncing around the premier NFL programs and still be a corch.

He is a corch by nature. It's genetic. It can't be coached away. Once a corch always a corch.

Could you be more specific on the off field stuff?
 
The elephant in the room is that Mario is an idiot. He is not a smart guy. 99% of successful football coaches are very smart individuals. They might not always come across as such but you can not be successful as a HC without being incredibly intelligent.

Mario is an idiot. His tenure at FIU both on the field and off the field should tell you everything you need to know about him. He could spend the next 4 years bouncing around the premier NFL programs and still be a corch.

He is a corch by nature. It's genetic. It can't be coached away. Once a corch always a corch.

Could you be more specific on the off field stuff?

His graduation rates were NCAA worst during his FIU tenure.

TheBootleg.com, the UnAuthorized Authority on Stanford Sports - Scout.com Front Page
 
In the midst of all of this Mario Cristobal talk, I've noted an interesting issue. In the past, we've discussed how coaching trees, relationships and interactions are critically important. But, their relevance is the key. If a QB coach is exposed to a great offensive coordinator, that's a plus. However, how much does that QB coach absorb? To what degree is that coach given responsibilities that allow him to apply what he is learning or has learned? In the Cristobal case, he's an OL coach with recruiting and organizational responsibilities. What translates?

When people talk about "Mario Cristobal learning under Nick Saban," I immediately wonder what exactly he has learned. Some people who have coached there or been related to the program feel Cristobal has "learned a lot." But, is it relevant? Alabama is not Miami in very, very many ways. Different resources. Different aim. Different style. Different competitive advantages to leverage.

The relevant question the committee or any decision-maker should be asking is fairly straightforward: What did you learn in your time at _______ and how is that applicable here? Then, one can ask "how is this situation different?" What would you do to bridge the gap(s)?

All in all, this goes beyond Mario Cristobal. Most people are sarcastically attacking "fit" comments. As it relates to using "fit" as the excuse for failure, I totally get it. To me, though, completely disregarding "fit" is as flawed as using it as an excuse for failure. For Miami, "fit" just means who's best positioned to leverage our competitive advantages.

The fit we need is a badass, technical coach or someone who brings a plan and package that leverage our strengths. Access to [the very best] talent is our unique competitive advantage. The primary non-technical strength I can see leverage that advantage is from someone who is able to evaluate talent better than others. That's why Butch is someone I support. He isn't the only one, as there are obviously more technical guys who may or may not be available.

The point here is I think it'd be interesting to discuss the concept that: "X" coach who has been exposed to "Y" (awesome coach) isn't necessarily meaningful to what we need.

Dig into the damn details, please.

Hire Butch and let Mario prove he deserves to be the Coach in waiting.
 
Mario is not the Cuban Al Golden. Golden was smart, organized and excellent at public and media relations. Golden was also incredibly stubborn and horrible football coach for our Program. Mario has yet to demonstrate any of those characteristics.

I dont necessarily believe that intelligence will automatically guarantee success. Picking a head coach simply because he's "smart" (e.g., Golden) is just as flawed as picking a coach who recruits well (e.g., Mario).

We we need a savage (to borrow Pere's term). Somebody who truly understands th DNA of this Program. Give me a dynamic aggressive minded coach. Give me a jerk. Give me a take no prisoners in your face mutha******* who will get us back to playing Miami football. Give me a coach who the rest of the country hates. Give me a coach who doesn't care about making friends but simply winning football games. Give me Herman.
 
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Frankly I don't understand why he would even be given an interview.

The elephant in the room is that Mario is an idiot. He is not a smart guy. 99% of successful football coaches are very smart individuals. They might not always come across as such but you can not be successful as a HC without being incredibly intelligent.

Mario is an idiot. His tenure at FIU both on the field and off the field should tell you everything you need to know about him. He could spend the next 4 years bouncing around the premier NFL programs and still be a corch.

He is a corch by nature. It's genetic. It can't be coached away. Once a corch always a corch.
 
Lu great post. You make a good point about evaluation of talent. Everyone here is sick of the 5 star kids moving out of the area. But just as important are the 3 star kids that we did not recruit that have become starts elsewhere. Skai Moore, the CB that went to Purdue, Hosley, the list goes on and on. And how about all the kids that went up to Louisville that became stars. So I am wondering what you feel about Strong. He seems to fit some of the bullet points you mentioned. We know if he comes here he will build a dynamic defense. I don't think anyone can argue that. He will also keep the home grown talent here. Maybe not as good as Butch but probably very close to it. The thing I have no idea about Strong is what kind of offense he would run and is he one of those defensive coaches that tends to make his offense conservative. I also have no idea if he is a good game day coach in all 3 facets of the game. Would love to hear your thoughts on Strong.
 
Forget fit.....figure out what has worked at Miami in the past when we were a dead program, and repeat that.

So for me, that means hiring an elite level X's and O's man who also has experienced success at the highest levels.
 
I really didn't follow Mario at FIU besides watching a couple games, can someone tell me what he did or didn't do there so I can get a better understanding of why people don't want him here? I just want to get some facts on why he would be a bad hire.
 
Good topic. I don't buy into the osmosis theory on coaching. There have been far too many examples of guys failing badly who worked under the greatest of all time. Just look at all the HC failures that have fallen from the Belichick and Jimmy Johnson trees.

The only time I really see the "working under" thing being relevant is when a guy works under as an offensive coach under a guy who runs a particular system. Same with defense. They pick that system up and then apply it.

Look at the Air Raid guys for example from the Mumme tree. Or the Art Briles disciples. They all learn how to run those systems and are invariably pretty good at it wherever they wind up.

You can learn technical things working under other coaches. But you don't really learn how to be a great leader or motivator. Usually, that sort of stuff is in you or it isn't.
 
If you have to project how a coach might be improved or different from his past, then the coach is not someone you hire.

Not when your team has been a dumpster fire for 10 years. That's what drives me nuts the most.

This team isn't the 1984 team coming off a title, or the 89 team coming off a top 5 finish, or the 95 team coming off an Orange bowl appearance, or the 2001 team coming off a Gator smacking in the sugar bowl.

We need to hire someone the quality of Howard. The program has no momentum, no identity. No strength program. No excitement. It requires a massive hire to turn the ship around. Guys like Strong and Wario and we are back here having this same conver in 2 seasons. I'm tired of going through this.
 
I really didn't follow Mario at FIU besides watching a couple games, can someone tell me what he did or didn't do there so I can get a better understanding of why people don't want him here? I just want to get some facts on why he would be a bad hire.

How about because Miami needs a coach who has a tremendous pedigree of success, not the OL coach from Bama that everyone hates who was fired from a Sun Belt school. I mean do u really need this spelled out for you? Go take 30 minutes and read about the coaches who took us out of the darkness and see if Mario is even somewhat close to them.
 
Lol calm down sir I was just looking for some insight. I didn't say he was a good or bad coach, he just gets a lot of heat on this website so I was wondering if there were certain reasons for that.




I really didn't follow Mario at FIU besides watching a couple games, can someone tell me what he did or didn't do there so I can get a better understanding of why people don't want him here? I just want to get some facts on why he would be a bad hire.

How about because Miami needs a coach who has a tremendous pedigree of success, not the OL coach from Bama that everyone hates who was fired from a Sun Belt school. I mean do u really need this spelled out for you? Go take 30 minutes and read about the coaches who took us out of the darkness and see if Mario is even somewhat close to them.
 
Lol calm down sir I was just looking for some insight. I didn't say he was a good or bad coach, he just gets a lot of heat on this website so I was wondering if there were certain reasons for that.




I really didn't follow Mario at FIU besides watching a couple games, can someone tell me what he did or didn't do there so I can get a better understanding of why people don't want him here? I just want to get some facts on why he would be a bad hire.

How about because Miami needs a coach who has a tremendous pedigree of success, not the OL coach from Bama that everyone hates who was fired from a Sun Belt school. I mean do u really need this spelled out for you? Go take 30 minutes and read about the coaches who took us out of the darkness and see if Mario is even somewhat close to them.

Do you have google? Have you read Cane Mutiny? Start there.....
 
Forget fit.....figure out what has worked at Miami in the past when we were a dead program, and repeat that.

So for me, that means hiring an elite level X's and O's man who also has experienced success at the highest levels.

That's what I call fit. And, the reason that is a good complement (or fit) with what we need is because we'll typically always have horses due to our built-in advantage.

The problem with the "fit" thing is that it's being used to explain away outright failures.

We need a combination of Xs and Os, a certain mentality (aggressive and one that will be bought in by our type of recruits), an eye for talent, and general adaptability. It's why Herman, as I mentioned, bubbles up to be as close to my first option as it can get. This, despite a big risk in about 2-3 areas that are unknowns. Now, all of those aspects in the combination don't have to come from one guy. But, the head coach has to be capable of putting together that entire package.
 
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If you have to project how a coach might be improved or different from his past, then the coach is not someone you hire.

Not when your team has been a dumpster fire for 10 years. That's what drives me nuts the most.

This team isn't the 1984 team coming off a title, or the 89 team coming off a top 5 finish, or the 95 team coming off an Orange bowl appearance, or the 2001 team coming off a Gator smacking in the sugar bowl.

We need to hire someone the quality of Howard. The program has no momentum, no identity. No strength program. No excitement. It requires a massive hire to turn the ship around. Guys like Strong and Wario and we are back here having this same conver in 2 seasons. I'm tired of going through this.

Yeah. UM's not in a position to let a guy interview his way around recent failure. That's why he shouldn't even be on the list to be interviewed.

If Mario wants another crack at being a HC, then he should prove himself at some lesser program. UM isn't the place for an OL coach with no discernible x and o's skills to be the HC.
 
Forget fit.....figure out what has worked at Miami in the past when we were a dead program, and repeat that.

So for me, that means hiring an elite level X's and O's man who also has experienced success at the highest levels.

That's what I call fit. And, the reason that is a good complement (or fit) with what we need is because we'll typically always have horses because of our advantage.

The problem with the "fit" thing is that it's being used to explain away outright failures.

We need a combination of Xs and Os, a certain mentality (aggressive and one that will be bought in by our type of recruits), an eye for talent, and general adaptability. It's why Herman, as I mentioned, bubbles up to be as close to my first option as it can get. This, despite a big risk in about 2-3 areas that are unknowns. Now, all of those aspects in the combination don't have to come from one guy. But, the head coach has to be capable of putting together that entire package.

Yup your definition of it is the appropriate one. Aka, a great coach worthy of the job. Unfortunately people with agendas have warped it into a pseudo race-based explanation for certain coaching failures.
 
I tend to disagree with focusing on the "fit" good or bad characterization of coaches. I agree it is a plus, but to use it as the main search point is too risky. You tend to focus less on the other skills and overall competence. You start by finding a great proven coach who's abilities will make him succeed in multiple situations and environments. Case in point: Urban Meyer.

Tell me of an elite coach who you think would not be a good fit at Miami. Meyer? Harbaugh? Saban? Miles? Patterson? Any elite coach will kill it here even if we say Miami is a unique place.

To me, focus on getting someone with elite coaching abilities because "fitting" comes automatically with been such a good coach.
 
I tend to disagree with focusing on the "fit" good or bad characterization of coaches. I agree it is a plus, but to use it as the main search point is too risky. You tend to focus less on the other skills and overall competence. You start by finding a great proven coach who's abilities will make him succeed in multiple situations and environments. Case in point: Urban Meyer.

Tell me of an elite coach who you think would not be a good fit at Miami. Meyer? Harbaugh? Saban? Miles? Patterson? Any elite coach will kill it here even if we say Miami is a unique place.

To me, focus on getting someone with elite coaching abilities because "fitting" comes automatically with been such a good coach.

Post more, please, as this should be a sticky on the top of the site. Well effing said bro.
 
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