forums

VanGorder or someone like him as DC

Lu is one of my favorite posters on here, but I simply can't agree here.

VanGorder's biggest issue is how complex his defense is, his insistence on wanting to run an NFL style defense (due to NFL aspirations again in my opinion), and his personality is not one of liking change.

Whomever we bring in I want them to do three things:

1. Be easy to learn and understand.

2. Be innovative and open to concepts that are unique to opponent. I simply can't stand defenses who do it their way no matter what. It works for Michigan State, I fully acknowledge this, but in my research more often than not the rigid scheme will fare worst against the best opponents.

3. Be aggressive on the edges. You can face guard in college football. You can grab downfield if the ball isn't in the air. Pass interference is not a spot foul. QB's are inadequate largely and WR's do not high point the ball worth a crud. How any DC would elect to play off man coverage is beyond me.
 
Advertisement
Van Smack Gorder and Richt ended badly at Gawga. Da bloom is off Van Gorders rose anyway but he was awesome at one time. He ain't coming.
 
HurricaneVision said:
Lu is one of my favorite posters on here, but I simply can't agree here.

VanGorder's biggest issue is how complex his defense is, his insistence on wanting to run an NFL style defense (due to NFL aspirations again in my opinion), and his personality is not one of liking change.

Whomever we bring in I want them to do three things:

1. Be easy to learn and understand.

2. Be innovative and open to concepts that are unique to opponent. I simply can't stand defenses who do it their way no matter what. It works for Michigan State, I fully acknowledge this, but in my research more often than not the rigid scheme will fare worst against the best opponents.

3. Be aggressive on the edges. You can face guard in college football. You can grab downfield if the ball isn't in the air. Pass interference is not a spot foul. QB's are inadequate largely and WR's do not high point the ball worth a crud. How any DC would elect to play off man coverage is beyond me.
Click to expand...

1. I noted the complexity angle is a drawback and the reason he has struggled. I'd project him to further simplify. I believe I recently read an article about how he has realized that he wasn't getting the progress he expected because of these issues.

2. Of course. I'm not encouraging a rigid anything. In fact, I go up and down this board encouraging adaptability. When I say VanGorder or someone like him, I'm talking 4-3 Over or 4-3 Under guys OR guys whose 3-4 has the same characteristics. Ironically, I talked about many of the reasons I think this fits our personnel and can be sustained in the 3-4 one gap thread.

3. No argument there. A lot of that is what Narduzzi preaches. Make offenses execute the low percentage play. That really starts with playing a certain way on your front. That way is actually similar to what VanGorder does with his fronts and blitz packages. Now, and again, he tries to be an NFL guy at times. If he is a candidate and I'm hiring, that's the primary point of discussion.

Get me an aggressive philosophy with something we (Miami) can sustain in terms of personnel. I think some 3-4 one gap units and all 4-3 Under/Over units give us that opportunity. Like I mentioned to Fully, we're likely NOT going to see this guy anyway.
 
LuCane said:
HurricaneVision said:
Lu is one of my favorite posters on here, but I simply can't agree here.

VanGorder's biggest issue is how complex his defense is, his insistence on wanting to run an NFL style defense (due to NFL aspirations again in my opinion), and his personality is not one of liking change.

Whomever we bring in I want them to do three things:

1. Be easy to learn and understand.

2. Be innovative and open to concepts that are unique to opponent. I simply can't stand defenses who do it their way no matter what. It works for Michigan State, I fully acknowledge this, but in my research more often than not the rigid scheme will fare worst against the best opponents.

3. Be aggressive on the edges. You can face guard in college football. You can grab downfield if the ball isn't in the air. Pass interference is not a spot foul. QB's are inadequate largely and WR's do not high point the ball worth a crud. How any DC would elect to play off man coverage is beyond me.
Click to expand...

1. I noted the complexity angle is a drawback and the reason he has struggled. I'd project him to further simplify. I believe I recently read an article about how he has realized that he wasn't getting the progress he expected because of these issues.

2. Of course. I'm not encouraging a rigid anything. In fact, I go up and down this board encouraging adaptability. When I say VanGorder or someone like him, I'm talking 4-3 Over or 4-3 Under guys OR guys whose 3-4 has the same characteristics. Ironically, I talked about many of the reasons I think this fits our personnel and can be sustained in the 3-4 one gap thread.

3. No argument there. A lot of that is what Narduzzi preaches. Make offenses execute the low percentage play. That really starts with playing a certain way on your front. That way is actually similar to what VanGorder does with his fronts and blitz packages. Now, and again, he tries to be an NFL guy at times. If he is a candidate and I'm hiring, that's the primary point of discussion.

Get me an aggressive philosophy with something we (Miami) can sustain in terms of personnel. I think some 3-4 one gap units and all 4-3 Under/Over units give us that opportunity. Like I mentioned to Fully, we're likely NOT going to see this guy anyway.
Click to expand...

Oh I get all of your reasons for liking him, and projecting someone is the exact thing you should be doing in any hiring decision. That said, the best predictor of future results is past results, and this guy isn't a top-notch coordinator currently in a results based environment.

Add to it the personality issues and I'm not sold on the guy. He is very much a fiery, cursing, meathead type of personality. That works fine at the position coach level, but wears thin quickly at the coordinator level.

Before I'd consider him at Miami I'd want him to show me he can simplify his defenses and get results with it, rather than just telling me he will/can/should.

I don't hate the guy, and anyone is better than what we had, but I'd be bringing in several other guys before this one.
 
HurricaneVision said:
Lu is one of my favorite posters on here, but I simply can't agree here.

VanGorder's biggest issue is how complex his defense is, his insistence on wanting to run an NFL style defense (due to NFL aspirations again in my opinion), and his personality is not one of liking change.

Whomever we bring in I want them to do three things:

1. Be easy to learn and understand.

2. Be innovative and open to concepts that are unique to opponent. I simply can't stand defenses who do it their way no matter what. It works for Michigan State, I fully acknowledge this, but in my research more often than not the rigid scheme will fare worst against the best opponents.

3. Be aggressive on the edges. You can face guard in college football. You can grab downfield if the ball isn't in the air. Pass interference is not a spot foul. QB's are inadequate largely and WR's do not high point the ball worth a crud. How any DC would elect to play off man coverage is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Awesome post. Post more bro bc you are dead on and I fully agree.
 
FullyERicht said:
HurricaneVision said:
Lu is one of my favorite posters on here, but I simply can't agree here.

VanGorder's biggest issue is how complex his defense is, his insistence on wanting to run an NFL style defense (due to NFL aspirations again in my opinion), and his personality is not one of liking change.

Whomever we bring in I want them to do three things:

1. Be easy to learn and understand.

2. Be innovative and open to concepts that are unique to opponent. I simply can't stand defenses who do it their way no matter what. It works for Michigan State, I fully acknowledge this, but in my research more often than not the rigid scheme will fare worst against the best opponents.

3. Be aggressive on the edges. You can face guard in college football. You can grab downfield if the ball isn't in the air. Pass interference is not a spot foul. QB's are inadequate largely and WR's do not high point the ball worth a crud. How any DC would elect to play off man coverage is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Awesome post. Post more bro bc you are dead on and I fully agree.
Click to expand...

Great posting by all 3 of you, including Fully ERicht, Hurricane Vision & LuCane.... really informative arguments.
 
fivecent said:
When I hear "too complex", I cross that DC off my list. As for Aranda, his shceme might be unique to him, and he will be promoted soon.

Give me Harlon Barnett. Its old Miami defense and he is new enough, that he should be here for a while. His scheme relies on a position group that is a area of supreme strength in south florida recruiting. Barnett also played and coach that group. One word, symmetry. The Hiring of coach Kool shores up an area of relative weakness. Plus Kool's insistence on constant qb pressure works to further maximize big play opportunities on the backend. Again, symmetry.

Barnett, you can bank on him. :)
Click to expand...

OOps! Seems Barnett's bank failed the latest stress test.
 
Advertisement
I dunno. He definitely plays an aggressive style of D. However, so do many other coordinators. I think we can do better.
 
HurricaneVision said:
Lu is one of my favorite posters on here, but I simply can't agree here.

VanGorder's biggest issue is how complex his defense is, his insistence on wanting to run an NFL style defense (due to NFL aspirations again in my opinion), and his personality is not one of liking change.

Whomever we bring in I want them to do three things:

1. Be easy to learn and understand.

2. Be innovative and open to concepts that are unique to opponent. I simply can't stand defenses who do it their way no matter what. It works for Michigan State, I fully acknowledge this, but in my research more often than not the rigid scheme will fare worst against the best opponents.

3. Be aggressive on the edges. You can face guard in college football. You can grab downfield if the ball isn't in the air. Pass interference is not a spot foul. QB's are inadequate largely and WR's do not high point the ball worth a crud. How any DC would elect to play off man coverage is beyond me.
Click to expand...

One of the best posts on this site in quite awhile. Keep it up.
 
I can see BVG having somebody buried in a hole in his yard,yelling at them " it rubs the lotion on its skin"
 
Did BVG impress you today? A month to prepare and he gets rocked to the tune of 44 points. A miserable job today in fact.

And we know ND is capable of very good defense under Kelly. Year three, major bowl game, one month to prep for an offense that has been mediocre all season, and he gets destroyed.

Please god don't hire this corch.
 
Advertisement
I'm not a BVG fan, but since you are asking questions ...

Did Harlon Barnett impress you last night?

A month to prepare, and got lit up by Jacob Coker?

That game looked like the LSU/Miami Peach Bowl.



FullyERicht said:
Did BVG impress you today? A month to prepare and he gets rocked to the tune of 44 points. A miserable job today in fact.

And we know ND is capable of very good defense under Kelly. Year three, major bowl game, one month to prep for an offense that has been mediocre all season, and he gets destroyed.

Please god don't hire this corch.
Click to expand...
 
Judging by one single bowl game is dumb.

I mean, Tulsa hung 65 points on Aranda's Hawaii defense back in the 2010 Hawaii bowl.

Should we hold that against him?
 
MIATL said:
I'm not a BVG fan, but since you are asking questions ...

Did Harlon Barnett impress you last night?

A month to prepare, and got lit up by Jacob Coker?

That game looked like the LSU/Miami Peach Bowl.



FullyERicht said:
Did BVG impress you today? A month to prepare and he gets rocked to the tune of 44 points. A miserable job today in fact.

And we know ND is capable of very good defense under Kelly. Year three, major bowl game, one month to prep for an offense that has been mediocre all season, and he gets destroyed.

Please god don't hire this corch.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Except MSU has a gigantic talent disparity compared to Bama. Whereas ND does not. MSU has been fielding top 10 defenses running that scheme for years. BVG on the other hand has fielded mediocre to bad defenses the last 10 years.

Frankly both should be ashamed at that performance, but at least MSU has a bit of an excuse.
 
MedleyCane said:
Judging by one single bowl game is dumb.

I mean, Tulsa hung 65 points on Aranda's Hawaii defense back in the 2010 Hawaii bowl.

Should we hold that against him?
Click to expand...

Ok so then we should judge him on the fact that he hasn't coached a top 25 defense a single time in the past decade.
 
Back
Top