Trenches

Truth is our O line has sucked for many years...we can't run the middle, we can't pass block, QB's have to run way to much...they don't have much time to do anything....Searles needs to go, he has had time and produced nothing. It start's in the trenches and our O line players are fat, slow, and out of shape and it shows on the field...and by the way thank God Rosier is gone
Agree with all this..this what most ppl ignore..our oline play was average Last season and terrible this year..that’s the root of the issue IMO. You can win with average QB play. We have enough talent at the skills spots to win 10plus with average QB play IF THE OLINE WASNT THIS BAD. That’s the 1st thing MR needs to address.
 
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Wisconsin 3-stars are like 4-stars from other places. Those kids are underrated

Here’s Wisconsin OL:
Starting:
Jon Dietzen from Wisc: (3 star OG - 52nd ranked OG in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to LT

Michael Dieter from Ohio (3 star C - 62nd ranked C in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to LG

Tyler Biadasz from Wisc (3 star SDE!!!! - 52nd SDE in the nation!!!)
*Wisc moves him to C

Beau Benzschwal from Wisc (3 star OT - 110th ranked OT in the nation ** was a 2 star OT until Wisc offer)
*Wisc moves him to RG

David Edwards IL (3 star TE!!!!! - 21st ranked TE in the nation!!!!)
*Wisc moves him to RT

Here’s the kicker....
Alec Ingold from Wisc (3 star QB!!!! - 46th ranked Dual in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to FB


Coaching, knowing your personnel...that’s everything. Wisc have put their players in the best possible position to maximize their skills. That’s coaching.
 
Here’s Wisconsin OL:
Starting:
Jon Dietzen from Wisc: (3 star OG - 52nd ranked OG in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to LT

Michael Dieter from Ohio (3 star C - 62nd ranked C in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to LG

Tyler Biadasz from Wisc (3 star SDE!!!! - 52nd SDE in the nation!!!)
*Wisc moves him to C

Beau Benzschwal from Wisc (3 star OT - 110th ranked OT in the nation ** was a 2 star OT until Wisc offer)
*Wisc moves him to RG

David Edwards IL (3 star TE!!!!! - 21st ranked TE in the nation!!!!)
*Wisc moves him to RT

Here’s the kicker....
Alec Ingold from Wisc (3 star QB!!!! - 46th ranked Dual in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to FB


Coaching, knowing your personnel...that’s everything. Wisc have put their players in the best possible position to maximize their skills. That’s coaching.

I’m giving you a thumbs up for just attempting to spell all those ******* names.

Jesus Christ.
 
Here’s Wisconsin OL:
Starting:
Jon Dietzen from Wisc: (3 star OG - 52nd ranked OG in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to LT

Michael Dieter from Ohio (3 star C - 62nd ranked C in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to LG

Tyler Biadasz from Wisc (3 star SDE!!!! - 52nd SDE in the nation!!!)
*Wisc moves him to C

Beau Benzschwal from Wisc (3 star OT - 110th ranked OT in the nation ** was a 2 star OT until Wisc offer)
*Wisc moves him to RG

David Edwards IL (3 star TE!!!!! - 21st ranked TE in the nation!!!!)
*Wisc moves him to RT

Here’s the kicker....
Alec Ingold from Wisc (3 star QB!!!! - 46th ranked Dual in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to FB


Coaching, knowing your personnel...that’s everything. Wisc have put their players in the best possible position to maximize their skills. That’s coaching.
How long has Paul been at wisky? At least 10 years I believe

On top of what your saying those guys are good athletes on that oline too..some of the cats we have signed in this years class are of that mold of multi sport guys, which I like. But it comes down to coaching toughness and identity up front. That’s where saban started at bama also
 
Here’s Wisconsin OL:
Starting:
Jon Dietzen from Wisc: (3 star OG - 52nd ranked OG in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to LT

Michael Dieter from Ohio (3 star C - 62nd ranked C in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to LG

Tyler Biadasz from Wisc (3 star SDE!!!! - 52nd SDE in the nation!!!)
*Wisc moves him to C

Beau Benzschwal from Wisc (3 star OT - 110th ranked OT in the nation ** was a 2 star OT until Wisc offer)
*Wisc moves him to RG

David Edwards IL (3 star TE!!!!! - 21st ranked TE in the nation!!!!)
*Wisc moves him to RT

Here’s the kicker....
Alec Ingold from Wisc (3 star QB!!!! - 46th ranked Dual in the nation)
*Wisc moves him to FB


Coaching, knowing your personnel...that’s everything. Wisc have put their players in the best possible position to maximize their skills. That’s coaching.


Just show how much starts those guys have that would be much better analysis for an OL.

tHE STARS REALLY DONT MATTER WHEN IT COMES TO OL. Which is why im not making ab ig fuss over the 2 current kids they have committed in this class. Wisconsin ol has like 5000 career starts. That same ol got their sh*t pushed in by Minn as well a game ago.

Wisky is a bad match up for Manny Diaz and a UM team. They are a team content in getting 4 yds a pop..those teams will always give us trouble as our d is predicated on getting in the backfield and forcing 3rd and longs which allows our dline to pin their ears back and for us to have a chance for turnovers.

Its a reason i always bet against us when playing against a power o type team or take the under.
 
Just show how much starts those guys have that would be much better analysis for an OL.

tHE STARS REALLY DONT MATTER WHEN IT COMES TO OL. Which is why im not making ab ig fuss over the 2 current kids they have committed in this class. Wisconsin ol has like 5000 career starts. That same ol got their sh*t pushed in by Minn as well a game ago.

Wisky is a bad match up for Manny Diaz and a UM team. They are a team content in getting 4 yds a pop..those teams will always give us trouble as our d is predicated on getting in the backfield and forcing 3rd and longs which allows our dline to pin their ears back and for us to have a chance for turnovers.

Its a reason i always bet against us when playing against a power o type team or take the under.

I agree w u to a point. It’s still about coaching. We’re missing our All American DT, so what did Wisc do? Run it up the middle. They were changing line formations all game long. They were even running fake jet sweeps, inside hand offs, just to keep our LBs honest.

Stars don’t matter when you have good coaching. When you don’t have a developmental program, Stars do matter, and even then, it only matters so much.

I’ve been impressed by what Wisc has been able to do w their players for a while, well back during the Ron Dayne years.
 
Bro, Wisc has an OL filled w a bunch of low 3 stars, 2 stars, and NR players. Coaching is everything. Yes we need more trench bullies, but Wisc coaching and their strength & conditioning program is far away better than ours. They have a TRUE freshman DLman repping 500 on the bench.

We can get 5 stars across the board and we would still suck b/c this coaching sucks.

Yes, something missing with the coaching, and that usually starts at the top. The OL has to want to own the opposing defense, humiliate them, smash them in the mouth if no one is looking, throw an occasional forearm under the chin. The clean cut game is not Miami. I'm not talking about cheating or doing illegal stuff off the field. I just wish that their attitude appeared much badder.
 
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Bashing our DL, seriously?

Our DL was #2 in HAVOC rate and #1 in TFLs.

Wisconsin has a top-3 OL and we didnt have Willis or Jackson. What ******* moron claims DL has been a problem here recently?
 
We need to recruit better trench players on the offensive and defensive lines, period.

We got totally dominated on both lines of scrimmage.

Our coaching sucks, but our problems in the trenches come from recruiting as much as coaching. These kids we have are soft.

Our OL lacks toughness and attitude...and to an extent the DL as well tonight. Their linemen were driving them back in rugby scrums.
 
It's hardly the trenches alone. Watch both teams run onto the field or off the field as a group. Not exactly difficult to project the outcome. When the camera showed both teams entering the tunnel at halftime tonight it was difficult not to laugh at the contrast.

One team is solid and strong and wide shouldered at every position. With each player you can look at his physique and not only identify what position he plays, but also that he has maximized his conditioning.

Only their kicker was an exception. They have the one fat *** quota.

With the Canes it is a hilarious mixture of bean poles and slobs. Seriously, what is Wisconsin doing on the sideline when they see guys like Patchan and Dean out there on our defense? The tackling dummies last August were more of an obstacle.

I'd love to have a coach like Paul Chryst and a power identity like Wisconsin owns. The I formation is such gorgeous football. It establishes a physical trump card identity that translates to both sides of the ball, and allows such amazing permutations. The goof announcer Dan Orlovsky finally got around to describing what was actually happening out on the field tonight, after he spent the early portions with his prepackaged tape guy crap, lavishing undeserved praise on the Canes. Wisconsin with all that motion and creativity was effectively disguising the same type of power play time and again. They were bullying us and also confusing us. Miami would not have been nearly as competitive as the final score if the Badger starting quarterback had been out there. Many more play action deep shots would have gashed us.

We've got some noodle brains on this site who love to mock the I formation. They certify their noodle brain status every time they attempt it. No kidding an occasional I formation look from the Canes will be mauled. We're like Play-Doh out there. Our offensive linemen look like Play-Doh. Our Play-Doh linemen rock back in their stance in dainty fashion. We spend all night in flatfooted fake handoffs out of a stagnant finesse RPO. We never even attempt to punish the defense, as opposed to tricking them.

Then once in a while our tinkerbell offense lines up in an I formation for an isolated play. The defense has no reason to respect it. They know we don't own serious drive blocking intentions or capability in the first place. We've got wall to wall Play-Doh out there. The play fails.

And the noodle brains scream that the I formation doesn't work.

Imagine Wisconsin with an elite quarterback running the same power based scheme. Actually we don't have to imagine. They had it for one season, the Russell Wilson season of 2011. And it was easily the best offense the Badgers have owned in this era, averaging over 7 yards per play and never scoring fewer than 28 points while averaging above 44 points per game.

I realize the Canes will not go back to basic power football, with the terrific available offshoots. The simpleton offensive coaches envision nothing but prancing touchdowns out of the spread. But bottom line when I started watching local high school football in Dade County many decades ago all of the programs looked like Wisconsin tonight. Sure there were various levels of ability but each team was strong and tough and smart and resourceful. It felt like watching a mini college team.

Nowadays when I watch Dade County high school football every team resembles the Canes from tonight. It is nothing but narrow wimpy spread finesse with no concept of actually needing to hit people and win games in the trenches. Just create a gap on offense, and fly through the gaps on defense. Sixty minutes of that and we can go home barely stained.

Consequently I'm never surprised when that type of fragile local mentality is exposed one step higher. We've got moderators here who love to point out numbers regarding Dade County players who excel in the pros. How is that more than modestly relevant? It is a fraction of a fraction. We've got to wait years until they are out of school to backtrack and rationalize.

Meanwhile the counter evidence is front and center every weekend. We may look good all alone on that practice field. We look comical alongside other rosters. I've mentioned many times how startling it was in the Clemson game several years ago to see that team run onto the field. Surreal gap between Canes physiques and Clemson physiques. And that type of reality is going to play out similarly these days every time we face a roster like LSU or Wisconsin.

It wouldn't be so bad if those physically imposing teams just dropped back and winged it all game. Yes, please forfeit your advantage. But when they are cruel enough to actually hit our players I'm not sure it is fair to keep score.
 
It's hardly the trenches alone. Watch both teams run onto the field or off the field as a group. Not exactly difficult to project the outcome. When the camera showed both teams entering the tunnel at halftime tonight it was difficult not to laugh at the contrast.

One team is solid and strong and wide shouldered at every position. With each player you can look at his physique and not only identify what position he plays, but also that he has maximized his conditioning.

Only their kicker was an exception. They have the one fat *** quota.

With the Canes it is a hilarious mixture of bean poles and slobs. Seriously, what is Wisconsin doing on the sideline when they see guys like Patchan and Dean out there on our defense? The tackling dummies last August were more of an obstacle.

I'd love to have a coach like Paul Chryst and a power identity like Wisconsin owns. The I formation is such gorgeous football. It establishes a physical trump card identity that translates to both sides of the ball, and allows such amazing permutations. The goof announcer Dan Orlovsky finally got around to describing what was actually happening out on the field tonight, after he spent the early portions with his prepackaged tape guy crap, lavishing undeserved praise on the Canes. Wisconsin with all that motion and creativity was effectively disguising the same type of power play time and again. They were bullying us and also confusing us. Miami would not have been nearly as competitive as the final score if the Badger starting quarterback had been out there. Many more play action deep shots would have gashed us.

We've got some noodle brains on this site who love to mock the I formation. They certify their noodle brain status every time they attempt it. No kidding an occasional I formation look from the Canes will be mauled. We're like Play-Doh out there. Our offensive linemen look like Play-Doh. Our Play-Doh linemen rock back in their stance in dainty fashion. We spend all night in flatfooted fake handoffs out of a stagnant finesse RPO. We never even attempt to punish the defense, as opposed to tricking them.

Then once in a while our tinkerbell offense lines up in an I formation for an isolated play. The defense has no reason to respect it. They know we don't own serious drive blocking intentions or capability in the first place. We've got wall to wall Play-Doh out there. The play fails.

And the noodle brains scream that the I formation doesn't work.

Imagine Wisconsin with an elite quarterback running the same power based scheme. Actually we don't have to imagine. They had it for one season, the Russell Wilson season of 2011. And it was easily the best offense the Badgers have owned in this era, averaging over 7 yards per play and never scoring fewer than 28 points while averaging above 44 points per game.

I realize the Canes will not go back to basic power football, with the terrific available offshoots. The simpleton offensive coaches envision nothing but prancing touchdowns out of the spread. But bottom line when I started watching local high school football in Dade County many decades ago all of the programs looked like Wisconsin tonight. Sure there were various levels of ability but each team was strong and tough and smart and resourceful. It felt like watching a mini college team.

Nowadays when I watch Dade County high school football every team resembles the Canes from tonight. It is nothing but narrow wimpy spread finesse with no concept of actually needing to hit people and win games in the trenches. Just create a gap on offense, and fly through the gaps on defense. Sixty minutes of that and we can go home barely stained.

Consequently I'm never surprised when that type of fragile local mentality is exposed one step higher. We've got moderators here who love to point out numbers regarding Dade County players who excel in the pros. How is that more than modestly relevant? It is a fraction of a fraction. We've got to wait years until they are out of school to backtrack and rationalize.

Meanwhile the counter evidence is front and center every weekend. We may look good all alone on that practice field. We look comical alongside other rosters. I've mentioned many times how startling it was in the Clemson game several years ago to see that team run onto the field. Surreal gap between Canes physiques and Clemson physiques. And that type of reality is going to play out similarly these days every time we face a roster like LSU or Wisconsin.

It wouldn't be so bad if those physically imposing teams just dropped back and winged it all game. Yes, please forfeit your advantage. But when they are cruel enough to actually hit our players I'm not sure it is fair to keep score.

I agree. South Florida high school football is not what it used to be, and that is partly why we’ve sucked for 15 years. The mentality has gotten much softer.

And our current players are either string beans, or they’re fat.
 
I agree w u to a point. It’s still about coaching. We’re missing our All American DT, so what did Wisc do? Run it up the middle. They were changing line formations all game long. They were even running fake jet sweeps, inside hand offs, just to keep our LBs honest.

Stars don’t matter when you have good coaching. When you don’t have a developmental program, Stars do matter, and even then, it only matters so much.

I’ve been impressed by what Wisc has been able to do w their players for a while, well back during the Ron Dayne years.
UM coaches need to get with the Wisconsin OL coaches and duplicate their OL program. Coaching is a fraternity. I'm sure their coaches would share knowledge if UM is humble enough to accept it.
 
UM coaches need to get with the Wisconsin OL coaches and duplicate their OL program. Coaching is a fraternity. I'm sure their coaches would share knowledge if UM is humble enough to accept it.

We need to completely steal their OL coaches!
 
Bro, Wisc has an OL filled w a bunch of low 3 stars, 2 stars, and NR players. Coaching is everything. Yes we need more trench bullies, but Wisc coaching and their strength & conditioning program is far away better than ours. They have a TRUE freshman DLman repping 500 on the bench.

We can get 5 stars across the board and we would still suck b/c this coaching sucks.

Top 5 OL coach in country is Bill Bedenbaugh. He wants to call plays. He'll be in Miami next week. Solves too many problems and makes too much sense, which is why it will never happen.
 
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We cannot run up the middle if our lives depended on it. Get rid of the stupid zone -blocking bullchit and fire Searles
Most of the people on the board don't understand the zone blocking scheme which is understandable. We gotta get rid of that crap.
 
We need to recruit better trench players on the offensive and defensive lines, period.

We got totally dominated on both lines of scrimmage.

Our coaching sucks, but our problems in the trenches come from recruiting as much as coaching. These kids we have are soft.
exactly .... the big uglies on both OL and DL are how you build a championship team ... Saban knew that and that was the priority at Bama when he first got there.
 
Most of the people on the board don't understand the zone blocking scheme which is understandable. We gotta get rid of that crap.
watch the highlight video of the bowl game or any video of a Miami game this year and 2 things that need to be fixed are
very noticeable and there is 1 thing that would really help.

Miami OL have terrible footwork, they look off balance most of the
time and since leverage is critical for good blocking, being off balance makes that almost impossible, also the OL do not
maintain and hold their blocks good enough. do they even work on these important techniques ?

last thing that might really help. since the OL with their poor footwork are getting in each other's way most of the time,
the OL needs wider splits when they line up on the ball. that would help create running lanes.

watch Miami's OL and then watch the Sooners or Bama's OL and see the big differences. the main difference is coaching
 
Taking the coach isn't going to do it. Miami produces speed like no other region of the country, and similarly, Wisconsin produces giants who can play oline. Look at where most of the big guys Wisconsin has put into the NFL come from; Joe Thomas - WI, JJ/TJ/Derek Watt - WI, Travis Fredrick - WI, Ricky Wagner - WI, Ryan Ramczyk - WI, Kevin Zeitler - WI, 4/5ths of this years starting lineup - WI. We might not put out that many skill guys, but we can do linemen with the best of them.

The state of Wisconsin is pretty unique in college football. Its a state of over 6 million people (which isn't huge but is bigger than most) with only one D1 college that plays football. That has allowed the program to build a wall around the state to the point that most programs don't even try to recruit around here. Nearly every top level athlete in the state grows up dreaming of being a Badger so they end up camping in Madison, maybe doing a SPARK run in Chicago and then they shut down their recruitment as soon as Chryst comes calling with an offer. As a result the state is ignored by most recruiting services and kids seldom have huge offer lists, but as we have firmly established by now, we can play some ball up in the Northwoods.

Coaching is a huge part of it no doubt, but the talent that the program has to work with is usually overlooked. There is a reason the tradition goes back to the early 90's now, its not done with smoke and mirrors, the state keeps the program stocked with nimble 320 lbers.
 
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