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Re: "Neutralizing" a strength

Fart Keyhole

Fart Keyhole

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There's been a good deal of discussion on Olé Miss's ability to neutralize Bain and Mesidor's pass-rush with a quick passing game.

For those of you who are learned in the ways of football- please explain to me how this works. My understanding is that there is no free lunch: OM will attempt to scheme up cheap yards in quick passing situations, but doesn't that restrict the route tree and rely on opposing DBs not being able to play the ball or tackle in space? And what about the quick passing game has anything to do with Rueben Bain's superpower in blowing up running backs who try to get cute and bounce **** outside?

I want to avoid eating rat poison, but I really think that Olé Miss has been able to run their high school offence by feasting on a weak conference (zero OOC wins in good-on-good matchups; all quality wins are SEC-vs-SEC). Maybe it hurt when the two best DBs in the country (Scott and Thomas) left that mid-major league.
 
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They will try to do a lot of screens and short quick passes and hit you deep with the RPO game. They take deep shots off of a 3 step drop out of shotgun. But we will continue to get pressure with 4. With our front— especially when lightfoot is in on 3rd downs, you never know who will come and who will drop. We are lucky we have a DT in Moten we can roll over to contain and DBs like Scott and Thomas who can rush and cover. Lightfoot has allowed this team to be so multiple in many ways. He lines up at DT, End, and LB
 
I believe the concern is that Chambliss will be more than happy to take the quick hitches if we play off coverage, and eventually one or two of his talented receivers will turn a 5-10 yard hitch into a long TD. It's not an unreasonable concern.

I'm ok with conceding the hitches on early downs, within reason, then playing more press man on 3rd and medium or less to take them away. I trust our outside guys to tackle their receivers more than I trust them to hold up in press man on early downs, because I think Ole Miss will try to beat them deep either with double moves or throw the long back shoulders like they killed LSU on in the 2nd quarter when LSU played a ton of m2m against them.

Ole Miss can score without big plays, but can they score 3 times without an explosive play like we did against OSU? Ideally they would have to score 4-5 times to beat us if our offense scores points like they should against Ole Miss's less than stellar defense.

The key isn't how we defend their passing game IMO; it's stopping Lacy on the ground. If they're one dimensional, they're screwed against us.
 
Fart Keyhole said:
There's been a good deal of discussion on Olé Miss's ability to neutralize Bain and Mesidor's pass-rush with a quick passing game.

For those of you who are learned in the ways of football- please explain to me how this works. My understanding is that there is no free lunch: OM will attempt to scheme up cheap yards in quick passing situations, but doesn't that restrict the route tree and rely on opposing DBs not being able to play the ball or tackle in space? And what about the quick passing game has anything to do with Rueben Bain's superpower in blowing up running backs who try to get cute and bounce **** outside?

I want to avoid eating rat poison, but I really think that Olé Miss has been able to run their high school offence by feasting on a weak conference (zero OOC wins in good-on-good matchups; all quality wins are SEC-vs-SEC). Maybe it hurt when the two best DBs in the country (Scott and Thomas) left that mid-major league.
Click to expand...
Yes. Living in “get-it-out-quick” mode absolutely limits your offense over time. It can slow down a pass rush but it comes with real trade-offs that good defenses eventually exploit.

You shrink your route tree. When you commit to quick game. That means you can only run these routes.
  • Slants
  • Hitches
  • Speed outs
  • Quick flats
  • Stick / spacing concepts
Also this means there will only be a single read concept. Defensive backs quickly learn what routes are being run and start to sit on them.

They sit on underneath routes because the Quick-game offenses live in the:
  • Flats
  • Hooks
  • Slants
  • Outs
When defenders know that The “QB can’t hold it,” they don’t have to respect vertical stress. So you’ll see:

Corners playing heavy outside leverage on hitches/outs

Nickel defenders driving on sticks

Linebackers dropping shallow instead of gaining depth

Safeties cheating down into intermediate windows

Your completion percentage might look fine early, then suddenly you get tipped balls and interceptions.

It allows pattern-matching and robber coverage Against a quick passing game, defenses can play:

Robber (a safety hunting inside routes)

Buzz (safety dropping into the hook)

Match coverages that pass off shallow routes aggressively

I personally don’t like a quick passing game for this reason. You leave a great defense with a hand full of routes to cover. Once they start sitting on routes and beating the receivers to their spot, it becomes impossible to move the ball.
 
Fart Keyhole said:
There's been a good deal of discussion on Olé Miss's ability to neutralize Bain and Mesidor's pass-rush with a quick passing game.

For those of you who are learned in the ways of football- please explain to me how this works. My understanding is that there is no free lunch: OM will attempt to scheme up cheap yards in quick passing situations, but doesn't that restrict the route tree and rely on opposing DBs not being able to play the ball or tackle in space? And what about the quick passing game has anything to do with Rueben Bain's superpower in blowing up running backs who try to get cute and bounce **** outside?

I want to avoid eating rat poison, but I really think that Olé Miss has been able to run their high school offence by feasting on a weak conference (zero OOC wins in good-on-good matchups; all quality wins are SEC-vs-SEC). Maybe it hurt when the two best DBs in the country (Scott and Thomas) left that mid-major league.
Click to expand...
They stress your ability to tackle in space and they stress your conditioning. The QB being accurate and a good run game helps them tremendously. If we can stop their run game with our front 4 and allow our LBs that split second to stand still to give the run read in the RPO then get to the back well negate one of their bread and butter.

This is what I said in another thread:
Probably not. But would play all of my coverages out of a pressed up look and jam all the receivers **** near all game. Anything to not let the QB have a rhythm and easy quick throws. Basically man them up for the first 5-7 yards then drop off into zones and pass people off

If we get beat in back shoulders and 20 yard fades against that kind of loo so be it. Make them do that all the way down the field multiple times.

But I won’t let them chuck me for 8 on first then get it in 4th and inches all game and I wouldn’t make the quick game easy for them. Chablis can throw a good deep ball but it’s the lowest percentage throw in the field and I wouldn’t make them best me like that all game and tip my cap if they can do it for 4 Qs
 
CityboyCanes4life82 said:
Yes. Living in “get-it-out-quick” mode absolutely limits your offense over time. It can slow down a pass rush but it comes with real trade-offs that good defenses eventually exploit.

You shrink your route tree. When you commit to quick game. That means you can only run these routes.
  • Slants
  • Hitches
  • Speed outs
  • Quick flats
  • Stick / spacing concepts
Also this means there will only be a single read concept. Defensive backs quickly learn what routes are being run and start to sit on them.

They sit on underneath routes because the Quick-game offenses live in the:
  • Flats
  • Hooks
  • Slants
  • Outs
When defenders know that The “QB can’t hold it,” they don’t have to respect vertical stress. So you’ll see:

Corners playing heavy outside leverage on hitches/outs

Nickel defenders driving on sticks

Linebackers dropping shallow instead of gaining depth

Safeties cheating down into intermediate windows

Your completion percentage might look fine early, then suddenly you get tipped balls and interceptions.

It allows pattern-matching and robber coverage Against a quick passing game, defenses can play:

Robber (a safety hunting inside routes)

Buzz (safety dropping into the hook)

Match coverages that pass off shallow routes aggressively

I personally don’t like a quick passing game for this reason. You leave a great defense with a hand full of routes to cover. Once they start sitting on routes and beating the receivers to their spot, it becomes impossible to move the ball.
Click to expand...

This is SPOT on...but scrambling QB and effective run game puts a major kink into it.
 
Handsome Squidbum said:
Can they really though? All their TDs drives in the 2nd half were a result of 30+ yard pass plays. I don’t think they can move the ball down the field in 4-5 yard chunks. If they aren’t hitting the deep passes, the drives will stall out.
Click to expand...
Even if they can, do they have the patience.
 
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CityboyCanes4life82 said:
Yes. Living in “get-it-out-quick” mode absolutely limits your offense over time. It can slow down a pass rush but it comes with real trade-offs that good defenses eventually exploit.

You shrink your route tree. When you commit to quick game. That means you can only run these routes.
  • Slants
  • Hitches
  • Speed outs
  • Quick flats
  • Stick / spacing concepts
Also this means there will only be a single read concept. Defensive backs quickly learn what routes are being run and start to sit on them.

They sit on underneath routes because the Quick-game offenses live in the:
  • Flats
  • Hooks
  • Slants
  • Outs
When defenders know that The “QB can’t hold it,” they don’t have to respect vertical stress. So you’ll see:

Corners playing heavy outside leverage on hitches/outs

Nickel defenders driving on sticks

Linebackers dropping shallow instead of gaining depth

Safeties cheating down into intermediate windows

Your completion percentage might look fine early, then suddenly you get tipped balls and interceptions.

It allows pattern-matching and robber coverage Against a quick passing game, defenses can play:

Robber (a safety hunting inside routes)

Buzz (safety dropping into the hook)

Match coverages that pass off shallow routes aggressively

I personally don’t like a quick passing game for this reason. You leave a great defense with a hand full of routes to cover. Once they start sitting on routes and beating the receivers to their spot, it becomes impossible to move the ball.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Isn't this also why the Briles Veer and shoot they run then turns those short routes into deep fades.....
 
If they have no run game, they have no way to control the clock. Passing plays won't wear down our defense and take chunks off the clock, which will show up as a clear disadvantage when we get late in the game.
 
StPeteCane said:
We lost against Louisville and SMU when they ran this game plan only cause the offense turned it over and failed to play effectively. The defense played well enough win both games. We just have to not turn it over and kill ourselves with dumb penalties.
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This. Media always mention these games as a slight to the defense. I believe we held them under their offensive average. Our offense **** bed in those game.

SMU have negative rushing yards at one point.
 
KingB02 said:
They will try to do a lot of screens and short quick passes and hit you deep with the RPO game. They take deep shots off of a 3 step drop out of shotgun. But we will continue to get pressure with 4. With our front— especially when lightfoot is in on 3rd downs, you never know who will come and who will drop. We are lucky we have a DT in Moten we can roll over to contain and DBs like Scott and Thomas who can rush and cover. Lightfoot has allowed this team to be so multiple in many ways. He lines up at DT, End, and LB
Click to expand...
Don’t forget DB, he pressed Smith on a play late in the game
 
StPeteCane said:
We lost against Louisville and SMU when they ran this game plan only cause the offense turned it over and failed to play effectively. The defense played well enough win both games. We just have to not turn it over and kill ourselves with dumb penalties.
Click to expand...

I think the worry is not just that we sort of struggled against similar offenses, but the fact Ole Miss has shown they can move the ball and score on elite defenses. Ole Miss torched UGA last week and torched an OU defense who is every bit as good as ours earlier in the season. In fact I would guess Ole Miss basing their offensive gameplan on OU
 
The ability of the DTs to get pressure through the middle will have Chambliss chase into one of the DEs.

Vs UGA, he ran around like a toddler who was in trouble. He turned his back to the defense multiple times to try and escape the pressure. You can't constantly do that. Anybody who has been watching football knows that.

One thing that a few haven't mentioned but D$ and Pete did on Monday, was our ability to blitz the DBs. Jakobe and Keointe get home on blitzes. They have to finish when they get there.

Lastly, this is why you recruit HS and stack talent. This is what Lightfoot, Justin Scott and Blount have all been developed for.

Ole **** may get a few plays, but we're relentless and will skull **** them.
 
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Dees Brown said:
This. Media always mention these games as a slight to the defense. I believe we held them under their offensive average. Our offense **** bed in those game.

SMU have negative rushing yards at one point.
Click to expand...
And miami had to deal with 🗑 refs.

That crew should never officiate for Miami again. F them specific refs
 
Handsome Squidbum said:
Can they really though? All their TDs drives in the 2nd half were a result of 30+ yard pass plays. I don’t think they can move the ball down the field in 4-5 yard chunks. If they aren’t hitting the deep passes, the drives will stall out.
Click to expand...
Yes they can. I posted this in another thread but since Chambliss took over they are averaging 1 scoring drive of 50+ yards without a play of 20 or more yards a game. They had two more against UF that Lane went for it on 4th down at the UF 1 and 3 yard line and missed.

They obviously would rather get explosive plays, but they can score being methodical as well. Not exactly surprising with a 1500 yard RB, a QB who can pick up first downs on the ground, and how good they are in short passing game to their WRs IMO.
 
JackMcClinton89 said:
I think the worry is not just that we sort of struggled against similar offenses, but the fact Ole Miss has shown they can move the ball and score on elite defenses. Ole Miss torched UGA last week and torched an OU defense who is every bit as good as ours earlier in the season. In fact I would guess Ole Miss basing their offensive gameplan on OU
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They definitely do what they do very well. I think we have players with a bit more flexibility than OU does that should have some impact, though.

Chambliss rolling out of the pocket is a concern and needs to be limited.
 
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