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Quick update on Punt Returner for those wondering

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MainLineCane said:
HTCane, that's the great thing about barbershops and boards, two grown men can see the exact same picture and yet both may see it completely different.

I just simply disagree with the JT being scared part of your statement and its for the very reason you may think he was. Anyone playing CFB at a Power5 school, playing ST only weighing 160+a bag of air against much larger players definitely ain't scared.

Reminds me of the arguments we used to have about Ali and Frazier's courage. IMO its impossible to gauge what's in a man's heart based on his style. Both had indomitable courage and neither ever quit. An athlete has to know which style works best for him. So between us, I guess it depends on whose style you liked the best. A man's courage isn't determined on which style he choses to achieve his objectives. I just try to focus more on the results of his choice.

HTC Let's just agree that we just disagree on which style we prefer ( Frankly, either one works for me) and agree that with better blocking both would be more effective. Good talk
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I hear and respect your position but the willingness to participate doesn’t eliminate the reality of fear. Many dudes signed up to fight Mike Tyson, but when it was time to actually swing with them it was no mas. Same thing with Veterans of wars. They signed up to go into live combat but none would tell u (including my grandfather) that they were not scared. There is no courage without the presence of fear, so it’s not a knock on a person for being so, but like U said, how did they perform despite it. JT didn’t perform that well and again the first 3 steps of a return man says everything U need to know.
 
HarrietTubmanCane said:
I hear and respect your position but the willingness to participate doesn’t eliminate the reality of fear. Many dudes signed up to fight Mike Tyson, but when it was time to actually swing with them it was no mas. Same thing with Veterans of wars. They signed up to go into live combat but none would tell u (including my grandfather) that they were not scared. There is no courage without the presence of fear, so it’s not a knock on a person for being so, but like U said, how did they perform despite it. JT didn’t perform that well and again the first 3 steps of a return man says everything U need to know.
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HTC combat is a totally different situation. I served and YES when those rounds came flying towards us...I WAS BEYOND SCARED because you can die and I wasn't ready to die!! . You'd have to be a complete and total idiot with nothing to live for if you weren't scared in that situation, but as we both agree the proof is what you do despite being scared. So I agree 100%

HTC I like the Tyson analogy! Because I've seen all his fights even the one's he lost. So tell me who attacked Tyson head-on and fought him the whole fight toe to toe?

Even the one's that defeated him ,Evander ,Buster and Lenox moved, backed up, slid away, went from side to side, jabbed away and moved to keep him off them etc etc until they got Mike into a position where they could land their blows and hurt him. That had nothing to do with fear, it had to do with knowing your advantages, and limits.

As for JT he was a freshman, with extraordinary speed. He'd be a fool not to try and use that speed advantage whenever possible. Its far too early for me to make a blanket statement that he's scared. IMO He's using the style that has made him most effective. Personally. I wouldn't want someone with his many gifts trying to pretend he's Earl Campbell because he's not.

HTC Lets wait & see how he does this year with one year under his belt. I'm willing to bet he's far more effective, and it won't be because he's no longer scared it will because his teammates on ST will better understand that with player's like him, same as with Hester, E. Brown and our other PR and KR greats, ( All of who 'd with their 1st 3 steps, never took hits head on, would back up, go around, and/or slice straight thru ).....because they knew they only need a crease to take it to the house.......and that's what they looked for.

So block and give him that crease because potentially it will be worth the results you'd get.

I'm willing to wait and see how this year goes.
 
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MainLineCane said:
HTC combat is a totally different situation. I served and YES when those rounds came flying towards us...I WAS BEYOND SCARED because you can die and I wasn't ready to die!! . You'd have to be a complete and total idiot with nothing to live for if you weren't scared in that situation, but as we both agree the proof is what you do despite being scared. So I agree 100%

HTC I like the Tyson analogy! Because I've seen all his fights even the one's he lost. So tell me who attacked Tyson head-on and fought him the whole fight toe to toe?

Even the one's that defeated him ,Evander ,Buster and Lenox moved, backed up, slid away, went from side to side, jabbed away and moved to keep him off them etc etc until they got Mike into a position where they could land their blows and hurt him. That had nothing to do with fear, it had to do with knowing your advantages, and limits.

As for JT he was a freshman, with extraordinary speed. He'd be a fool not to try and use that speed advantage whenever possible. Its far too early for me to make a blanket statement that he's scared. IMO He's using the style that has made him most effective. Personally. I wouldn't want someone with his many gifts trying to pretend he's Earl Campbell because he's not.

HTC Lets wait & see how he does this year with one year under his belt. I'm willing to bet he's far more effective, and it won't be because he's no longer scared it will because his teammates on ST will better understand that with player's like him, same as with Hester, E. Brown and our other PR and KR greats, ( All of who 'd with their 1st 3 steps, never took hits head on, would back up, go around, and/or slice straight thru ).....because they knew they only need a crease to take it to the house.......and that's what they looked for.

So block and give him that crease because potentially it will be worth the results you'd get.

I'm willing to wait and see how this year goes.
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Truth! I guess what I’m saying is that the opposite of fearlessness is not “scared”, I don’t believe JT is fearless as Hester is IMO. But that would only make JT like 97% of human beings including myself who are not fearless. I thought I saw some shookness but maybe U are right, I certainly hope U are and the more U explain the more I agree.

Btw, Evander to a degree and especially Buster didn’t take a step back from Tyson. Buster’s mother had just died and he was totally nuts that night. He fought fearlessly and relentlessly, that’s why he won.
 
Did he say anything about Feagles not being garbage?

Our special teams has been far worse since Richt became the HC. Hartley is an elite recruiter but coaching SPTs doesn’t seem to be his thing....
 
JT was clearly running scared last year. I thought the only reason Richt still had him returning kicks was to keep him focused in Miami. I am sure the kid was homesick.

The return spots are more than just about speed. I hate when returners let the punt bounce off the ground. You can lose 20 yards really quick with that crap. No reason for it.

PR is for the most sure handed players on the team.

I have noticed that Miami has not blocked well on special teams for some time. I think that is a reflection of what time and emphasis the HC puts on it. If you start every meeting with special teams film and do atleast 15 minutes every practice your going to be good at it.
 
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HarrietTubmanCane said:
Truth! I guess what I’m saying is that the opposite of fearlessness is not “scared”, I don’t believe JT is fearless as Hester is IMO. But that would only make JT like 97% of human beings including myself who are not fearless. I thought I saw some shookness but maybe U are right, I certainly hope U are and the more U explain the more I agree.

Btw, Evander to a degree and especially Buster didn’t take a step back from Tyson. Buster’s mother had just died and he was totally nuts that night. He fought fearlessly and relentlessly, that’s why he won.
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I hear ya..That's a fact about Hester,

BUT Awwww Man HTC!! Dang!! I thought we were making progress ?? LOL!!

As for the fights, Guess one day we'll both just have to sit down together and re-watch the replays those classic fights, especially Buster's surprising victory when he did what everyone thought was impossible.

I remember watching that fight made me late for an event my wife was dragging me to. I thought it would be just another quick Tyson beat down. To this day, she still gives me grief over that. Buster fought it like a bigger stronger Ali, ...Didn't know that about his mother though.

I remember thinking that he'd be the Champ for a long time after that clinical 10 round dissection and the courage he showed after being knocked down by Tyson when he temporarily got away from his plan and tried to go toe to toe.. He showed the world a way to beat the single minded, mean, ferocious, ultra strong, "Iron Mike"and destroyed the growing myth that he was unbeatable....loser buys the last round ok?.

....so until then Have a great one my man.
 
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Wonder if KR will matter less now that a fair catch anywhere inside the 25 results in a touchback. Hope not but an interesting discussion nonetheless
 
Regarding Mike Tyson and supposed invincibility, I was at the Sands casino near the sportsbook in fall 1988 when suddenly I heard a commotion behind me. I turned around and there was Mike Tyson, strolling in our direction and surrounded by maybe 25 people who had recognized him and were walking alongside.

It was a startling experience for one reason and one reason only: Mike Tyson was a midget. It was beyond incredible how short he was. My jaw dropped and so did the expressions of the English couple standing next to me. For the remainder of my life I'll never forget the exchange from them that followed:

Husband: "Lookee there, it's Mike Tyson."

Wife: "Why...he can't be more than 5 feet tall."

I immediately burst into laughter. I told her...yes, you have the right idea. There is no way to witness Mike Tyson for the first time and not be struck by his height, or lack thereof. But he's not 5 feet tall. I proposed 5 foot 6. They agreed with he. Mike Tyson the baddest man of all of history is a whopping 5 foot 6. I remember chuckling about it the remainder of the evening, and beyond.

Now, I was accustomed to seeing celebrities in person in Las Vegas who were tiny compared to their reputation. Chuck Norris is barely taller than a night stand. The first time I saw him at the Barbary Coast sportsbook it was another case of nearly falling over in a seizure of laughter. This is the guy with all the mythical feats attached to him? Yeah, if you allow him to stand on a stool. Martin Sheen somehow played John F. Kennedy in a movie. Maybe when Kennedy was 12. Even Hulk Hogan could not be more ordinary looking in person.

But nothing matched the absurdity of Little Mike Tyson touted as all time invincible. I was working as sportsbook supervisor and immediately told everyone in the department how tiny Tyson was. They refused to believe it, until a year later when I was again in the Sands and again Tyson walked past. But fortunately this time I was in the company of Tommy George, our sportsbook manager. Like myself a year earlier, his jaw dropped in disbelief as Tyson walked within feet of us. Okay, I said to Tommy, how tall do you think he is...5-6? 5-7?

"5-7...absolute tops."

Exactly. I agreed with him.

Later I brought up the topic to a guy I knew from Little Caesar's casino, a wise guy joint then taking the biggest action in town. He was a former boxer and now worked odd jobs at Johnny Tocco's gym in Las Vegas, where Tyson trained. One of his jobs was to occasionally drive Tyson around town. When he heard the topic he didn't react at all, didn't deny it at all. "You're not telling me anything I don't know. Mike is 5-7. Everybody at the gym knows it."

I appreciated when a female reporter for the short lived "The National" sports daily wrote, "Mike Tyson is listed at 5 foot 10. Yeah, in a top hat."

After seeing Midget Mike in person I bet a friend of mine that Tyson would not be champion for 2 more years, that he would lose in the ring. Looking back, it was a stupid wager, a Happy Adjuster type of wager, even though I was correct and eventually collected. I was trying to make a point but robbed myself in the process. The value at Even money was awful. I merely could have wagered against Tyson every time and made more of a profit than Even money.

And I had every intention of wagering on Buster Douglas in that famous 1990 bout. I was working at the Horseshoe sportsbook as supervisor and touted Douglas for weeks. He was legitimately big and talented. He would tower over Tiny Tyson. Jimmy Vaccaro may have been an all time crook years later as sportsbook manager of The Mirage but in early 1990 he was running the Golden Nugget sportsbook downtown, and smack across the street from the Horseshoe where I worked. Vaccaro was the only guy in town to book that Tyson/Douglas fight. He was using Tyson -4200 (42 to win 1) with the return +3400 on Douglas (1 to win 34). All week I planned to wager $300 on Douglas. That was my standard lowball wager at the time. I was a nickel ($500) bettor with nothing less than three dollars, which is slang for $300.

I wish I could report a great profit, a deserving reward after being correct about Mini Mike's vulnerability. I had weeks to make that wager and could have done it at any time. For whatever reason I put it off and planned to make it after leaving work on the day of the fight. However, Las Vegas sports betting realities often get in the way. That fight was held on a Saturday in the midst of college basketball season. I had dozens of bets in the nickel range and was struggling to win any of them. I got buried in the morning block and in the midday block. The 4 PM Pacific games started just as my shift ended. From the early returns I was losing all of those wagers. So I got in my car and limped home. I never did make that $300 investment at 34/1 odds.

I went to Little Caesar's casino that night and watched the returns come in. I continued to lose almost every basketball wager, while Buster Douglas mostly toyed with Mini Mike before surviving one flash knockout and finishing him off. I was numb. I lost something like 7 dimes that day on basketball but could have have broken even simply by making the one $300 wager.

The next day at work one guy after another came up to me and congratulated me. Shook my hand with huge smiles alongside.They had taken my advice and bet 10 or 20 bucks on Buster Douglas.

I couldn't get myself to admit to any of them that I never made the planned wager myself.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Regarding Mike Tyson and supposed invincibility, I was at the Sands casino near the sportsbook in fall 1988 when suddenly I heard a commotion behind me. I turned around and there was Mike Tyson, strolling in our direction and surrounded by maybe 25 people who had recognized him and were walking alongside.

It was a startling experience for one reason and one reason only: Mike Tyson was a midget. It was beyond incredible how short he was. My jaw dropped and so did the expressions of the English couple standing next to me. For the remainder of my life I'll never forget the exchange from them that followed:

Husband: "Lookee there, it's Mike Tyson."

Wife: "Why...he can't be more than 5 feet tall."

I immediately burst into laughter. I told her...yes, you have the right idea. There is no way to witness Mike Tyson for the first time and not be struck by his height, or lack thereof. But he's not 5 feet tall. I proposed 5 foot 6. They agreed with he. Mike Tyson the baddest man of all of history is a whopping 5 foot 6. I remember chuckling about it the remainder of the evening, and beyond.

Now, I was accustomed to seeing celebrities in person in Las Vegas who were tiny compared to their reputation. Chuck Norris is barely taller than a night stand. The first time I saw him at the Barbary Coast sportsbook it was another case of nearly falling over in a seizure of laughter. This is the guy with all the mythical feats attached to him? Yeah, if you allow him to stand on a stool. Martin Sheen somehow played John F. Kennedy in a movie. Maybe when Kennedy was 12. Even Hulk Hogan could not be more ordinary looking in person.

But nothing matched the absurdity of Little Mike Tyson touted as all time invincible. I was working as sportsbook supervisor and immediately told everyone in the department how tiny Tyson was. They refused to believe it, until a year later when I was again in the Sands and again Tyson walked past. But fortunately this time I was in the company of Tommy George, our sportsbook manager. Like myself a year earlier, his jaw dropped in disbelief as Tyson walked within feet of us. Okay, I said to Tommy, how tall do you think he is...5-6? 5-7?

"5-7...absolute tops."

Exactly. I agreed with him.

Later I brought up the topic to a guy I knew from Little Caesar's casino, a wise guy joint then taking the biggest action in town. He was a former boxer and now worked odd jobs at Johnny Tocco's gym in Las Vegas, where Tyson trained. One of his jobs was to occasionally drive Tyson around town. When he heard the topic he didn't react at all, didn't deny it at all. "You're not telling me anything I don't know. Mike is 5-7. Everybody at the gym knows it."

I appreciated when a female reporter for the short lived "The National" sports daily wrote, "Mike Tyson is listed at 5 foot 10. Yeah, in a top hat."

After seeing Midget Mike in person I bet a friend of mine that Tyson would not be champion for 2 more years, that he would lose in the ring. Looking back, it was a stupid wager, a Happy Adjuster type of wager, even though I was correct and eventually collected. I was trying to make a point but robbed myself in the process. The value at Even money was awful. I merely could have wagered against Tyson every time and made more of a profit than Even money.

And I had every intention of wagering on Buster Douglas in that famous 1990 bout. I was working at the Horseshoe sportsbook as supervisor and touted Douglas for weeks. He was legitimately big and talented. He would tower over Tiny Tyson. Jimmy Vaccaro may have been an all time crook years later as sportsbook manager of The Mirage but in early 1990 he was running the Golden Nugget sportsbook downtown, and smack across the street from the Horseshoe where I worked. Vaccaro was the only guy in town to book that Tyson/Douglas fight. He was using Tyson -4200 (42 to win 1) with the return +3400 on Douglas (1 to win 34). All week I planned to wager $300 on Douglas. That was my standard lowball wager at the time. I was a nickel ($500) bettor with nothing less than three dollars, which is slang for $300.

I wish I could report a great profit, a deserving reward after being correct about Mini Mike's vulnerability. I had weeks to make that wager and could have done it at any time. For whatever reason I put it off and planned to make it after leaving work on the day of the fight. However, Las Vegas sports betting realities often get in the way. That fight was held on a Saturday in the midst of college basketball season. I had dozens of bets in the nickel range and was struggling to win any of them. I got buried in the morning block and in the midday block. The 4 PM Pacific games started just as my shift ended. From the early returns I was losing all of those wagers. So I got in my car and limped home. I never did make that $300 investment at 34/1 odds.

I went to Little Caesar's casino that night and watched the returns come in. I continued to lose almost every basketball wager, while Buster Douglas mostly toyed with Mini Mike before surviving one flash knockout and finishing him off. I was numb. I lost something like 7 dimes that day on basketball but could have have broken even simply by making the one $300 wager.

The next day at work one guy after another came up to me and congratulated me. Shook my hand with huge smiles alongside.They had taken my advice and bet 10 or 20 bucks on Buster Douglas.

I couldn't get myself to admit to any of them that I never made the planned wager myself.
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Shut the fvck up already you ******* bloviator.

I bet your punk *** didn't say schit to Mike Tyson about being a midget did you? ******* poser.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Regarding Mike Tyson and supposed invincibility, I was at the Sands casino near the sportsbook in fall 1988 when suddenly I heard a commotion behind me. I turned around and there was Mike Tyson, strolling in our direction and surrounded by maybe 25 people who had recognized him and were walking alongside.

It was a startling experience for one reason and one reason only: Mike Tyson was a midget. It was beyond incredible how short he was. My jaw dropped and so did the expressions of the English couple standing next to me. For the remainder of my life I'll never forget the exchange from them that followed:

Husband: "Lookee there, it's Mike Tyson."

Wife: "Why...he can't be more than 5 feet tall."

I immediately burst into laughter. I told her...yes, you have the right idea. There is no way to witness Mike Tyson for the first time and not be struck by his height, or lack thereof. But he's not 5 feet tall. I proposed 5 foot 6. They agreed with he. Mike Tyson the baddest man of all of history is a whopping 5 foot 6. I remember chuckling about it the remainder of the evening, and beyond.

Now, I was accustomed to seeing celebrities in person in Las Vegas who were tiny compared to their reputation. Chuck Norris is barely taller than a night stand. The first time I saw him at the Barbary Coast sportsbook it was another case of nearly falling over in a seizure of laughter. This is the guy with all the mythical feats attached to him? Yeah, if you allow him to stand on a stool. Martin Sheen somehow played John F. Kennedy in a movie. Maybe when Kennedy was 12. Even Hulk Hogan could not be more ordinary looking in person.

But nothing matched the absurdity of Little Mike Tyson touted as all time invincible. I was working as sportsbook supervisor and immediately told everyone in the department how tiny Tyson was. They refused to believe it, until a year later when I was again in the Sands and again Tyson walked past. But fortunately this time I was in the company of Tommy George, our sportsbook manager. Like myself a year earlier, his jaw dropped in disbelief as Tyson walked within feet of us. Okay, I said to Tommy, how tall do you think he is...5-6? 5-7?

"5-7...absolute tops."

Exactly. I agreed with him.

Later I brought up the topic to a guy I knew from Little Caesar's casino, a wise guy joint then taking the biggest action in town. He was a former boxer and now worked odd jobs at Johnny Tocco's gym in Las Vegas, where Tyson trained. One of his jobs was to occasionally drive Tyson around town. When he heard the topic he didn't react at all, didn't deny it at all. "You're not telling me anything I don't know. Mike is 5-7. Everybody at the gym knows it."

I appreciated when a female reporter for the short lived "The National" sports daily wrote, "Mike Tyson is listed at 5 foot 10. Yeah, in a top hat."

After seeing Midget Mike in person I bet a friend of mine that Tyson would not be champion for 2 more years, that he would lose in the ring. Looking back, it was a stupid wager, a Happy Adjuster type of wager, even though I was correct and eventually collected. I was trying to make a point but robbed myself in the process. The value at Even money was awful. I merely could have wagered against Tyson every time and made more of a profit than Even money.

And I had every intention of wagering on Buster Douglas in that famous 1990 bout. I was working at the Horseshoe sportsbook as supervisor and touted Douglas for weeks. He was legitimately big and talented. He would tower over Tiny Tyson. Jimmy Vaccaro may have been an all time crook years later as sportsbook manager of The Mirage but in early 1990 he was running the Golden Nugget sportsbook downtown, and smack across the street from the Horseshoe where I worked. Vaccaro was the only guy in town to book that Tyson/Douglas fight. He was using Tyson -4200 (42 to win 1) with the return +3400 on Douglas (1 to win 34). All week I planned to wager $300 on Douglas. That was my standard lowball wager at the time. I was a nickel ($500) bettor with nothing less than three dollars, which is slang for $300.

I wish I could report a great profit, a deserving reward after being correct about Mini Mike's vulnerability. I had weeks to make that wager and could have done it at any time. For whatever reason I put it off and planned to make it after leaving work on the day of the fight. However, Las Vegas sports betting realities often get in the way. That fight was held on a Saturday in the midst of college basketball season. I had dozens of bets in the nickel range and was struggling to win any of them. I got buried in the morning block and in the midday block. The 4 PM Pacific games started just as my shift ended. From the early returns I was losing all of those wagers. So I got in my car and limped home. I never did make that $300 investment at 34/1 odds.

I went to Little Caesar's casino that night and watched the returns come in. I continued to lose almost every basketball wager, while Buster Douglas mostly toyed with Mini Mike before surviving one flash knockout and finishing him off. I was numb. I lost something like 7 dimes that day on basketball but could have have broken even simply by making the one $300 wager.

The next day at work one guy after another came up to me and congratulated me. Shook my hand with huge smiles alongside.They had taken my advice and bet 10 or 20 bucks on Buster Douglas.

I couldn't get myself to admit to any of them that I never made the planned wager myself.
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yea didn't even read this lol j
 
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