Need insight into the baseball team

[txcanes]

Yeah, exactly like Wake Forest, amigo. Wake is having a great first half of a season. Ok. They also won half their ACC games last year and got bounced out of the NCAA's right quick, went 10-22 in the conference in 2021, 1-2 in 2020 (Covid year), 14-16 in 2019, and 13-17 in 2018. One the last five years they've been a bottom half ACC program.

Vanderbilt, ha. The Opportunity Vanderbilt Program has been a game changer for them. Google it. It's literally an example of how a school/program is having to go to extraordinary lengths and expense to compete with their state school rivals. That actually cements my point!

Rice is unranked and playing .500 ball. Duke and Notre Dame aren't ranked and are .500 or worse in the ACC.

Why would you use those three struggling, middling programs as examples? Again, they prove my point.

It's not that complicated, our players have to come up with around 2-3x as much $ as most of our rivals in the aggregate, either through academic scholarships, cash, or loans, etc. It's not a level playing field.

Google the cost of many programs. Quite a few very successful programs tuition is similar to Miami. Live with it. And you dodged the issue, Miami has always had high tuition and excelled for years. Look for another excuse, like coaching.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

Google the cost of many programs. Quite a few very successful programs tuition is similar to Miami. Live with it. And you dodged the issue, Miami has always had high tuition and excelled for years. Look for another excuse, like coaching.

Our coaching is absolutely a problem. I've said so many times. This has nothing to do with it, and it's not an "excuse" it's just dealing with reality.

Everything I wrote is accurate and valid, and you wanting to skip over the facts because you're dug in on an incorrect and fruitless position doesn't change that.

Nothing I wrote is groundbreaking. It's a universal issue among private schools when it comes to baseball because of the partial tuition structure.

 

[txcanes]

Our coaching is absolutely a problem. I've said so many times. This has nothing to do with it, and it's not an "excuse" it's just dealing with reality.

Everything I wrote is accurate and valid, and you wanting to skip over the facts because you're dug in on an incorrect and fruitless position doesn't change that.

Nothing I wrote is groundbreaking. It's a universal issue among private schools when it comes to baseball because of the partial tuition structure.

There were no facts, just excuses. Answer the question stop dodging. HOW did we have success in the past with the tuition differential. HOW?

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

There were no facts, just excuses. Answer the question stop dodging. HOW did we have success in the past with the tuition differential. HOW?

Not sure if you know this, but the cost of higher education has skyrocketed at much faster pace than real wages have. I just blew your mind, huh?

Price Of College Increasing Almost 8 Times Faster Than Wages

The cost to attend a university increased nearly 8x faster than wages did. While the cost of a four-year degree exploded to $104,480, real median wages only went from $54,042 to $59,039 between 1989 and 2016. There is a disconnect between the rising costs of education and the flattening of wages.

www.forbes.com

So the rise in tuition prices has exponentially increased the disadvantage private schools have since "we had success in the past" as you stated. Get why it's more of an issue now? Why things are different? If not, read my link again.

Revenue sports is an arms race these days, and the 11.7 issue has never been a bigger issue when it comes to how if affects private school baseball programs, because the disparity between what part of a public school education costs and what a private school education costs has never been greater for a baseball player on a partial ride.

 

[gutchek]

You're not giving them enough credit - they also can't field and can't run the bases

 

[gutchek]

Interesting that we have like 10 outfielders and Long the best and fastest one is on the bench all the time still. Fastest one can’t steal bases if you get put in late . Prob best batting avg too . Yeah we need 13 next year .

 

[txcanes]

Not sure if you know this, but the cost of higher education has skyrocketed at much faster pace than real wages have. I just blew your mind, huh?

Price Of College Increasing Almost 8 Times Faster Than Wages

The cost to attend a university increased nearly 8x faster than wages did. While the cost of a four-year degree exploded to $104,480, real median wages only went from $54,042 to $59,039 between 1989 and 2016. There is a disconnect between the rising costs of education and the flattening of wages.

www.forbes.com

So the rise in tuition prices has exponentially increased the disadvantage private schools have since "we had success in the past" as you stated. Get why it's more of an issue now? Why things are different? If not, read my link again.

Revenue sports is an arms race these days, and the 11.7 issue has never been a bigger issue when it comes to how if affects private school baseball programs, because the disparity between what part of a public school education costs and what a private school education costs has never been greater for a baseball player on a partial ride.

I hear you that is a bigger issue. However, our coaching has been a bigger problem in my opinion. I also know that there are several programs with annual tuition over 50,000 who continue to kick our butts and our talent is just as good. Such a poorly coached team.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

I hear you that is a bigger issue. However, our coaching has been a bigger problem in my opinion. I also know that there are several programs with annual tuition over 50,000 who continue to kick our butts and our talent is just as good. Such a poorly coached team.

OUR COACHING IS A MAJOR ISSUE. WE AGREE. I WANT A NEW COACH. WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING OR ARGUING THAT. STOP TRYING TO DIVERT AND DEFLECT.

Got it? Thanks!

Now name me all these private schools that are kicking our butt and having success year in and year out. And in advance, my reply will be for you to re-read post #41.

 

[Ajcane8]

Like Wake Forest? Research their tuition vs ours.Come on we have always had that disparity when we were winning. Rice, Vandy, Wake, Duke, Notre Dame all have tuitions very similar to Miami. That is not the issue.

Besides Vanderbilt (who has, to their credit, invented an ingenious workaround), the rest of those schools you mentioned are/have become also-rans. Wake is pretty good this year and ND was good (not great) the last few (got their coach poached) - congratulations. When is the last time a private school (other than Vandy - see, workaround) won a title in football or baseball? The last time Rice went to Omaha I was texting girls to meet at the Falls on my T-Mobile Sidekick. The last twenty years have not been kind to private schools' athletic departments.

For the 20-year run where we were pretty consistently a top-5 program in baseball (and football), sure our tuition was expensive, but it wasn't cost prohibitive. Just some anecdotal evidence - my dad's best friend was a 2-year starter in the early 90's. juco transfer, not from a wealthy family, couldn't afford the 12 grand (or whatever tuition was back then) out of pocket, but with Pell Grants and other "funds" he didn't leave school with any real debt.

In a few years tuition alone will be over 100k/year at Miami (and Stanford and USC and Rice and...). Absent a few rule changes (baseball should be a headcount scholarship sport - no real reason to only have 11.7 scholarships for a 30-man roster, especially now with one free transfer) or a clever workaround of our own, we simply will not have the depth to realistically compete even if the wizard himself were resurrected and made skipper.

We’ll get some dudes, as we always have, but the odds of having a 4th starter and multiple bullpen guys that are both +arms and willing to leave school hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt is pretty slim.

 

[Pitcher in the Rye]

Besides Vanderbilt (who has, to their credit, invented an ingenious workaround), the rest of those schools you mentioned are/have become also-rans. Wake is pretty good this year and ND was good (not great) the last few (got their coach poached) - congratulations. When is the last time a private school (other than Vandy - see, workaround) won a title in football or baseball? The last time Rice went to Omaha I was texting girls to meet at the Falls on my T-Mobile Sidekick. The last twenty years have not been kind to private schools' athletic departments.

For the 20-year run where we were pretty consistently a top-5 program in baseball (and football), sure our tuition was expensive, but it wasn't cost prohibitive. Just some anecdotal evidence - my dad's best friend was a 2-year starter in the early 90's. juco transfer, not from a wealthy family, couldn't afford the 12 grand (or whatever tuition was back then) out of pocket, but with Pell Grants and other "funds" he didn't leave school with any real debt.

In a few years tuition alone will be over 100k/year at Miami (and Stanford and USC and Rice and...). Absent a few rule changes (baseball should be a headcount scholarship sport - no real reason to only have 11.7 scholarships for a 30-man roster, especially now with one free transfer) or a clever workaround of our own, we simply will not have the depth to realistically compete even if the wizard himself were resurrected and made skipper.

We’ll get some dudes, as we always have, but the odds of having a 4th starter and multiple bullpen guys that are both +arms and willing to leave school hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt is pretty slim.

2023 Recruiting Class Rank: 4
2022: 5
2021: 5
2020: https://miamihurricanes.com/news/2021/01/15/baseball-recruiting-class-earns-third-no-1-ranking/

They keep recruiting the cream of the crop every year so money can't be that big of a deterrent.

 

[Ajcane8]

2023 Recruiting Class Rank: 4
2022: 5
2021: 5
2020: https://miamihurricanes.com/news/2021/01/15/baseball-recruiting-class-earns-third-no-1-ranking/

They keep recruiting the cream of the crop every year so money can't be that big of a deterrent.

I mean, I guess it depends on the source, but per PG (the only free source I could find) we have only had 1 class in the top-10 since 2018. Not to say I don't think we have a talented team, but the depth, especially wrt the arms, just isn't there. Why?

In your opinion, does Florida run out 7 guys all pumping 95+ on a weekend just because Sully is such a nice guy? It's not like the kids we do get on campus have trouble getting drafted. So "better development" can't be the only reason. Yet here we are with juco-transfer Ben Chestnutt throwing 71mph eephus pitches during conference games.

Maybe JD is washed. Maybe we aren't recruiting the right kids or the right areas. Or, maybe a few of the kids throwing 95 at Florida, or Mississippi or Penn State or... would like to come here but can't justify the costs.

 

[Pitcher in the Rye]

I mean, I guess it depends on the source, but per PG (the only free source I could find) we have only had 1 class in the top-10 since 2018. Not to say I don't think we have a talented team, but the depth, especially wrt the arms, just isn't there. Why?

In your opinion, does Florida run out 7 guys all pumping 95+ on a weekend just because Sully is such a nice guy? It's not like the kids we do get on campus have trouble getting drafted. So "better development" can't be the only reason. Yet here we are with juco-transfer Ben Chestnutt throwing 71mph eephus pitches during conference games.

Maybe JD is washed. Maybe we aren't recruiting the right kids or the right areas. Or, maybe a few of the kids throwing 95 at Florida, or Mississippi or Penn State or... would like to come here but can't justify the costs.

Chestnutt is doing a good job.

I mean, I guess it depends on the source, but per PG (the only free source I could find) we have only had 1 class in the top-10 since 2018. Not to say I don't think we have a talented team, but the depth, especially wrt the arms, just isn't there. Why?

In your opinion, does Florida run out 7 guys all pumping 95+ on a weekend just because Sully is such a nice guy? It's not like the kids we do get on campus have trouble getting drafted. So "better development" can't be the only reason. Yet here we are with juco-transfer Ben Chestnutt throwing 71mph eephus pitches during conference games.

Maybe JD is washed. Maybe we aren't recruiting the right kids or the right areas. Or, maybe a few of the kids throwing 95 at Florida, or Mississippi or Penn State or... would like to come here but can't justify the costs.

I think the reason is that Sully does a great job recruiting and developing. Prospects notice. The winning helps poach players from other state schools with similarly low tuitions.
What you’re saying seems perfectly logical on the surface: a low tuition school should always out-recruit a high tuition school. But there are clearly plenty of kids who can and want to come to the U as evidenced by top recruiting classes year after year. Also remember there are lots of little ways to circumvent the 11.7 even before NIL. When you break it all down, the X factor seems to fall on the coaching staff. Way too many highly touted guys end up regressing here.

 

[txcanes]

Chestnutt is doing a good job.
I think the reason is that Sully does a great job recruiting and developing. Prospects notice. The winning helps poach players from other state schools with similarly low tuitions.
What you’re saying seems perfectly logical on the surface: a low tuition school should always out-recruit a high tuition school. But there are clearly plenty of kids who can and want to come to the U as evidenced by top recruiting classes year after year. Also remember there are lots of little ways to circumvent the 11.7 even before NIL. When you break it all down, the X factor seems to fall on the coaching staff. Way too many highly touted guys end up regressing here.

We agree!

 

[txcanes]

OUR COACHING IS A MAJOR ISSUE. WE AGREE. I WANT A NEW COACH. WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING OR ARGUING THAT. STOP TRYING TO DIVERT AND DEFLECT.

Got it? Thanks!

Now name me all these private schools that are kicking our butt and having success year in and year out. And in advance, my reply will be for you to re-read post #41.

I agreed with you and shared my thoughts . If you can't have a solid back and forth just walk away.

 

[Pitcher in the Rye]

We agree!

Guess we’ll see peace in the Middle East next

 

[Ajcane8]

Chestnutt is doing a good job.
I think the reason is that Sully does a great job recruiting and developing. Prospects notice. The winning helps poach players from other state schools with similarly low tuitions.
What you’re saying seems perfectly logical on the surface: a low tuition school should always out-recruit a high tuition school. But there are clearly plenty of kids who can and want to come to the U as evidenced by top recruiting classes year after year. Also remember there are lots of little ways to circumvent the 11.7 even before NIL. When you break it all down, the X factor seems to fall on the coaching staff. Way too many highly touted guys end up regressing here.

That’s easy to say, but it doesn’t seem entirely accurate, tangibly.

Not an endorsement of JD, the game results obviously haven’t been there of late - but, the 3 pitchers who entered the draft and threw more than 10 innings for us last year… got drafted. 2/3 in the top 4 rounds. Keep going back - Cecconi, 1st rounder, McKendry goes in the 9th, Van Belle would’ve gone in 2020 if the draft wasn’t all kinds of messed up. All 3 climbing through their farm systems.

That said, this year, it doesn’t look like we have enough quality arms to really compete (Lequerica, Gallo and Chestnutt would not give me fuzzy feelings going into that Monday regional game).

Again, begs the question - Why? Even if it’s true that the development at State School X might be incrementally (or even orders) better than it is at Private School Y, I don’t think you should just wholly dismiss the idea that it’s much much easier to convince Johnny Relief Pitcher (and his parents) to attend State School X for 6k/semester than it is to find ways to circumvent the 80k/year it’s gonna cost him to play at Private School Y.

I guess it's just a coincidence that all of Miami, Rice, USC - teams that practically lived in Omaha until ~2005 - can barely win a regional. Teams with proud traditions and in fertile recruiting grounds all just happened to hire multiple duds to be head coach. Seems odd.