Josh Pate on rankings bias

Dwinstitles

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Here for y'all flat earthers and tin foil heads. I see all fan bases make these allegations, but if you had any common sense you would know what Josh says is true without having to watch the video. Rankings change cause of eyes on the player it's that simple. Are they wrong sometimes? Yes. But a lot of the time it's spot on especially when bama UGA and OSU on you heavy you know the rankings legit. Never believed in that only believed in what was happening on the field because of off the field results on the trail. So if a prospect got a bump it wasn't because of the school he was going to imo it's because he earned it.
 
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The recruiting services absolutely use offers as a factor in ranking. They outright say it. They are not ranking every single high school player based solely on their own scouts’ opinions. When a lower rated kid gets offers from big name schools, he gets a bump. The obvious reason is that if a bunch of top programs are interested in you, there’s a high probability that you’re good.

It’s funny because we complain that they lower our commits’ rankings (a lot of fan bases say the same) but every year we have relatively unknown 3 star guys who get bumped to 4 stars after committing to us. It will happen again this year too. At least two or three of our current 3 star commits will end up as a 4 star player.

There’s a lot of minuscule shuffling in the rankings that I believe is strictly to get clicks though. When a committed guy goes from a 92.75 to a 91.34 ranking, especially during the off season, it’s just to spark discussion and/or controversy. When fans obsess over meaningless rises and falls in rankings, it drives traffic for them.
 


Here for y'all flat earthers and tin foil heads. I see all fan bases make these allegations, but if you had any common sense you would know what Josh says is true without having to watch the video. Rankings change cause of eyes on the player it's that simple. Are they wrong sometimes? Yes. But a lot of the time it's spot on especially when bama UGA and OSU on you heavy you know the rankings legit. Never believed in that only believed in what was happening on the field because of off the field results on the trail. So if a prospect got a bump it wasn't because of the school he was going to imo it's because he earned it.



I am very critical of the ratings/rankings services. And it is not all based on the bias factor, though that is one part of it. I don't think that I've ever argued that the players targeted by Alabama or Georgia or any other school that has a GREAT scouting department are "wrong". But there are some other things at work too:

1. Too many services, not enough good internet journalist-analysts. Now that you have Rivals and 247 and on3, plus a bit of ESPN and SI in the mix too, you are seeing situations where the "independent" analysis is flawed, defective, or negligent. Even guys that cover the Elite 11 can give very divergent opinions, and that's just 20 kids to watch. So to think that, what, a few hundred writers can cover thousands and thousands of football games, camps, 7-on-7s, and every other event where these recruits showcase their abilities is just nuts. So if the ratings and rankings are not coming from independent observations...

2. Overreliance on what college coaches tell the internet journalist-analysts. Now, to the extent that the Alabama and Georgia writers are getting info from a solid bunch of coaches, you can have reliable information and ratings. But what about the writers who cover Manny Diaz at Miami? I would have no problems if, in an ideal world, these writers had multiple data points that included BOTH their own observations and the commentary of the college coaches. But that is very rare, so you have a doubling effect where the opinions of coaches outweigh everything else. And we've seen a lot of coaches give false information about who they like and don't like...and then...

3. Inaccurate assessments by certain coaches can distort things. All these national services try to be "national" and not just save all the 5-star and 4-star ratings for kids in the southeast. So if some of the writers cover certain colleges NOT named Alabama/Georgia, and those coaching staffs are pursuing players that are NOT as good (either because of poor evaluations or "we can probably sign this kid", then you can get a distorted picture of "who the coaches think the best players are". All we have to do is go over to Gaytor Tears to see how THREE different coaching staffs have chased borderline 4-stars in order to raise their "class rankings".

4. The Gaytor Bumpz is out there too. And if our fanbase was bigger and prone to giving Wiltfong more ****, we would see more fanbases who insist, because of their past championships (and sizable subscriber numbers), that the services automatically upgrade all their 3-star recruits.

5. Hesitance by the services to make big changes or late changes to the rankings is problematic, combined with the rise of December signing day and the shifts in the overall recruiting calendar. A few years ago, Texas used to LOCK UP nearly its entire recruiting class a year in advance. And then they would find out that those players may have "peaked early" and that there were a lot of kids who were late-bloomers, but it was too late.



None of those factors is the "only reason", but they all play a part in the overall picture. So what you have is a relatively accurate assessment for the Top 5 or 10 schools, and then a bunch of other schools scrambling to make their classes look as good as possible, by taking the highest rated players they can. And that's where evaluations come into play and make all the difference. There are only 450 blue-chip recruits each year, and 65 P5 schools. That's 7 "difference makers" per school on average, but we all know that some schools get more and some get less.

I rarely argue on 5-stars. Very few are "really" 3-stars.

But there's a lot of imprecision in the 3-star vs. 4-star world.
 
Well more of our guys have gotten bumped down. More than they’ve got bumped up.
I feel like if this does happen it's usually a bump down a number of spots and not really going from high 4 star to now being a 3 star prospect. The only time I think I see that happen is when a guy goes from being a top recruit in the early rankings but then only sees AAC type offers.

It's more like: 4 star player that was committed to Bama and ranked 147 overall now commits to Miami and is ranked 178. At the end of the day, they're still a 4 star player. And that bump down likely doesn't happen for another few months.

Also....how often are those adjustments accurate? It's hard to gauge but the numbers show that Miami players have drastically underachieved their ranking over the last 20 years...sooooooo.....And yeah I get that you can blame coaches for that but that still ultimately impacts how accurate 247 is based on their rankings.

When those rankings get mentioned on ESPN and podcasts you kinda have to favor the programs that continuously churn out 1st round players.
As soon as something gets this prevalent, the quality goes down. They have people who really have no idea rating people high solely because other people think highly of them. Look no further than Arch Manning for evidence.
I think this is the real crux of the "problem." Most of these guys (for example, Gaby) don't truly understand the x's and o's. They're simply regurgitating tidbits of analysis they're hearing during camps, interviews with coaches, practices, live games, etc.

They then look at new offers or just overall offer list and think "this is a low 4 star player that Bama is turning the heat up on...and this high school coach said that he's one of the most talented players he's over coached...I'm going to bump him up 48 spots in my rankings and make him a 4 star player."
 
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To say there’s no bias in rankings is actually saying the earth is flat or you’re wearing a tin foil hats. There’s bias is **** near everything in life. Getting offers or committing to schools like Bama , UGA , OSU and some others instantly changes how you‘re perceived by recruiting sites.
 
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As soon as something gets this prevalent, the quality goes down. They have people who really have no idea rating people high solely because other people think highly of them. Look no further than Arch Manning for evidence.
At the end of the day they want to be right and to justify their existence. So a kid like Arch is easy money for them to look right on his future projection. His families history and genetics are tough to bet against. He has it physically and you know he’ll have it mentally. Just like kids that go to UGA , Bama or OSU. The odds of that player go up , because they’ll be coached up and developed like nobody else. Then 247 can look back and say “ see our rankings and how high guys are picked“.

Thats just a piece of the pie and there’s no denying this happens. It’s not the end all and stars / rankings do matter but to say there’s no bias is naive as ****.
 
As soon as something gets this prevalent, the quality goes down. They have people who really have no idea rating people high solely because other people think highly of them. Look no further than Arch Manning for evidence.
Completely disagree. That last name is a proven commodity 3 times. Just off of that you give him the benefit of the doubt. Same as Lebrons kid. Never understood this take at all.
 
Completely disagree. That last name is a proven commodity 3 times. Just off of that you give him the benefit of the doubt. Same as Lebrons kid. Never understood this take at all.
He shouldn’t have been ranked that high but anyone that thinks he’s not a top shelf recruit is just hating. He has game and talent. He shouldn’t be the top ranked qb in the class or one of the best ever but that’s where bias comes in. Is he overrated? Yeah , a tad bit. Are there a bunch of haters because of his last name ? You better believe it.
 
Completely disagree. That last name is a proven commodity 3 times. Just off of that you give him the benefit of the doubt. Same as Lebrons kid. Never understood this take at all.
Yes it is. But they are going off reputation and genetics. He avoided camps and other opportunities to evaluate his skills. Other than HS highlights, none of these analysts can say they've seen him put in scenarios to justify 5 stars.

I'm saying people are lazy and unwilling to deviate from the norm. That's the point, not Arch Manning.
 
He shouldn’t have been ranked that high but anyone that thinks he’s not a top shelf recruit is just hating. He has game and talent. He shouldn’t be the top ranked qb in the class or one of the best ever but that’s where bias comes in. Is he overrated? Yeah , a tad bit. Are there a bunch of haters because of his last name ? You better believe it.
I agree 100% he was a little overrated but I have no problem with him being a 5*.
 
Yes it is. But they are going off reputation and genetics. He avoided camps and other opportunities to evaluate his skills. Other than HS highlights, none of these analysts can say they've seen him put in scenarios to justify 5 stars.

I'm saying people are lazy and unwilling to deviate from the norm. That's the point, not Arch Manning.
Manning = The ranking. Which justifies it 100% to me. Same as if it were Jeter, Jordan, Brady, Bryant etc. I'm okay with being lazy towards that. They've earned it.
 
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Manning = The ranking. Which justifies it 100% to me. Same as if it were Jeter, Jordan, Brady, Bryant etc. I'm okay with being lazy towards that. They've earned it.
That's exactly the point of my post. Analysts ranking based on nothing but reputation and the work of others.

If every analyst ranks a CB as a 5 star and one analyst sees that he has stiff hips and poor closing speed, he isn't going to rank him as a 3 star because they all must know something he doesn't.
 
That's exactly the point of my post. Analysts ranking based on nothing but reputation and the work of others.

If every analyst ranks a CB as a 5 star and one analyst sees that he has stiff hips and poor closing speed, he isn't going to rank him as a 3 star because they all must know something he doesn't.
Agree to disagree. Enjoy your day friend!
 
Manning = The ranking. Which justifies it 100% to me. Same as if it were Jeter, Jordan, Brady, Bryant etc. I'm okay with being lazy towards that. They've earned it.
The father and two sons were all great college qb’s. AM‘s father Cooper would’ve been a D1 receiver as well if not for injuries , he was a helluva a player. I’ll happily take that bet with the family tree and genetics.
 
The father and two sons were all great college qb’s. AM‘s father Cooper would’ve been a D1 receiver all well if not for injuries , he was a helluva a player. I’ll happily take that het with the family tree and genetics.
Agree 100%. I haven't budged off that take yet.
 
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