It occurred to me while watching the game Saturday..

Get a strong coach.
Maybe an AD who knows what they’re doing too. I’m typically very optimistic, but if you saw Saturday and put it in the greater context of what we’ve seen throughout the years and from this staff then you know it’s gonna be a looooong season. Really hope I’m wrong, I’ll gladly eat my words.
 
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I'll agree the admin is inept but it makes zero sense to me they actively don't want a premier football program and all the $$ that goes along with that.
I don't understand why this is even surprising, let alone makes no sense to you. It's obvious.

The issue isn't whether they 'want' a premier program. People 'want' hot women. Just not at the expense of their marriage. People 'want' to be fit and healthy. Just too often not at the expense of giving up burgers and fries, or working out regularly.

Miami doesn't want the things that go along with a premier program. That's obvious. It's not about the money, either. It's about the risks and sacrifices. Saying they 'want' the program is meaningless.
 
No my point is the opposite. We recruit enough talent but something happens when they get here. At least enough talent to win the coastal most years. There's a systemic problem that goes beyond coaching or administration.
There are a lot of issues here but I don't think your analysis is helping get at them.

Why is the problem bigger than coaching? How would we know, if we continually hire incompetent coaches?

The issue with Admin is largely leadership in picking coaches and supporting the program (including infrastructure). They're not the reason coaches fail, except that they pick fails as coaches (and perhaps some behind the scenes things we can only guess at).

We have had mediocre talent because of a combination of bad evaluations and lazy recruiting leading to poor talent and depth and atrocious dispersion of talent (huge position group gaps at various times at key positions, including QB, WR, OL, DL and CB).

We have had terrible coaches, which is both the cause of the talent issue and a compounding problem because our talent would win more with better coaches.

People are looking for some magic explanation for what's *really* wrong. The answer is staring us in the face. This 'systemic' problem is simply bad coaching and infrastructure (and lack of institutional concern), and the downstream consequences thereof.

For 20 years, the fan debate has been this chase your tail game. Some people think the problem is coaching, and have attacked anyone who said talent was an issue because they thought that was an excuse for coaching. It's 'development!' Some said. Or 'scheme!' Others have said talent was an issue. The issue is obviously ALL OF THE ABOVE. They're interrelated. Coaches have to find talent, and develop it, and put it in a position to excel. And it has to be a balance of talent across the roster, so we don't have gaping unit holes that opponents can easily exploit, or massive depth issues.
 
There are a lot of issues here but I don't think your analysis is helping get at them.

Why is the problem bigger than coaching? How would we know, if we continually hire incompetent coaches?

The issue with Admin is largely leadership in picking coaches and supporting the program (including infrastructure). They're not the reason coaches fail, except that they pick fails as coaches (and perhaps some behind the scenes things we can only guess at).

We have had mediocre talent because of a combination of bad evaluations and lazy recruiting leading to poor talent and depth and atrocious dispersion of talent (huge position group gaps at various times at key positions, including QB, WR, OL, DL and CB).

We have had terrible coaches, which is both the cause of the talent issue and a compounding problem because our talent would win more with better coaches.

People are looking for some magic explanation for what's *really* wrong. The answer is staring us in the face. This 'systemic' problem is simply bad coaching and infrastructure (and lack of institutional concern), and the downstream consequences thereof.

For 20 years, the fan debate has been this chase your tail game. Some people think the problem is coaching, and have attacked anyone who said talent was an issue because they thought that was an excuse for coaching. It's 'development!' Some said. Or 'scheme!' Others have said talent was an issue. The issue is obviously ALL OF THE ABOVE. They're interrelated. Coaches have to find talent, and develop it, and put it in a position to excel. And it has to be a balance of talent across the roster, so we don't have gaping unit holes that opponents can easily exploit, or massive depth issues.
It's the culture. And that comes from the fan environment.
 
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It's the culture. And that comes from the fan environment.
LMAO. That's the most incredible excuse and distraction I've ever heard. Culture comes from the 'fan environment.'

So coaches don't do anything about culture? They're just 'receivers' of it?

No idea why anyone would be discussing any of this if that were true. (Hint: it's not.)
 
LMAO. That's the most incredible excuse and distraction I've ever heard. Culture comes from the 'fan environment.'

So coaches don't do anything about culture? They're just 'receivers' of it?

No idea why anyone would be discussing any of this if that were true. (Hint: it's not.)
Fan culture at Miami is toxic. Doesn't matter the coach. It infects the players.
 
Fan culture at Miami is toxic. Doesn't matter the coach. It infects the players.
Again, that's just a total excuse. We hire coaches who can't or won't create culture then blame the fans? Sorry, not buying it at all. Fans don't provide PT. They don't run practices. They don't give offers. They don't report to NFL teams on your value as a prospect. UM has stunk for 20 years because it's administration has hired incompetent coaches and those coaches have run incompetent programs.
 
Well, done OP. May I offer two possible explanations?

1) We recruit So FL with the expectation it's still the 1980/90s. Unfortunately, we no longer are the only act in town, bringing in the dawgs fighting for the chance at a way out. Everyone else in college football figured that out 20 years ago. Now, So FL athletes are more entitled, self-aware kids looking for their best exposure and good for them, because we haven't done much as a program to make them want to come here for a shot at a winning program, rather going to an already established winning program. Yet we haven't changed that recruiting focus, we keep getting the leftovers, the problem players and keep wondering why.

2) Curse of the Orange Bowl.
 
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It's the culture. And that comes from the fan environment.
Fan culture at Miami is toxic. Doesn't matter the coach. It infects the players.

I sadly actually think you believe this and are not trolling, but to be clear, when fans were wearing Al Golden ties to games before he proved to be another loser, it was that toxic environment that caused players to not develop and not his defensive scheme that entirely misused players? And the culture of fans is what caused losses, not Richt and his sons playcalling?
 
Somewhere in the second quarter I think, I was doing what I seemingly do most games, and most seasons over the past 15 years or so. I'm waiting for this team to wake up. I'm waiting for everything to click and the team to show that they're the ones with the superior athleticism, size, talent, and will. And then just sort of occurred to me, I'm waiting for something that's not coming.

There's just something deeply wrong with the entire program. And what I do, and we all do, as is our natural inclination, is to try to look for that one thing. Well it's Diaz, we just need a new head coach. Well it's the OC, it's the DC, it's our linebackers, it's our OL, our receivers still can't catch, our quarterback is short and coming off an injury. It's our tackling. It's our preparation. It's our S&C.

But, it's all those things, and it's so much more. I get accused of being a Diaz slurper, and I'm not. I think it was another really risky higher. Another guy with no experience, and some degree of success as a coordinator, but not a whole lot to indicate that he had some kind of great coaching pedigree. But what's funny is people acting like he's suddenly the problem. As if Coker, Shannon, Golden, and Richt never existed somehow. Yea I get how things imploded under Coker and Shannon, but Golden was what half this board is clamoring for again right now. A guy who turned around a fledgling program and made them respectable. And how did Richt forget to coach? Sure UGA had a ceiling but things never imploded on him like they did here in 2018. What happened?

And how is it Lashlee forgot everything? How is it he got a bunch of guys to put up massive #s at SMU with a bunch of guys Miami wouldn't even recruit. The comp isn't THAT dramatically better here. You certainly can't say that about an App St.

I'm watching the App St game and I'm seeing a bunch of kids that Miami wouldn't have even sent a letter to pushing around our big 4 star recruits with elite offer lists.. And then rub their faces in the dirt and tell them about it. And yes we made enough plays to find a way to win, but how did we get to this level when we're life and death with a decent G5 team... Again. Yea they have chips on their shoulders, but so do all the G5 kids on teams that get served up to P5 schools early in the season before the conference schedules. And unless you're FSU, the talent disparity takes care of itself, no matter how bad those kids want to prove their worth.

But not with us. There's almost this pervasive rot that never goes away since the 2005 Peach Bowl. Like it seems they're doing what they need to do in the off-season to train and prepare but once the lights come on there's not an extra gear to meet the challenge. Yea some weeks there are, but it's never consistent. The difference in the way a Tyrique Stevenson plays, with physical abandon and toughness every play, compared to everyone else is so jarring you almost feel like he doesn't belong on the field with these guys. And then you start to realize why guys like him choose to go other places. Because kids like that are watching us play, and turnover chains and TD rings and models on the beach and everything else is nice and fun but it's gilded and these guys are football players. They're watching what's happening on the field and that edge just isn't there. It's about WAY more than scheme.

They're seeing what we see and they're just not interested. Now I think we've started to get some of those type of guys. I think James and Avante are those type of dudes. But the rot is still there. And it can't be fixed with one recruiting class. Yea these kids want to win. They want to play for championships. But want to and making it happen are two different beasts. And the former greats like Michael a Irvin occasionally in their ear or Ed Reed on staff and in their ear EVERY DAY can't just flip a switch and make it happen.

I don't know the answer, and I don't know if there are any easy ones, or any at all. And my only defense of Manny is that he tires to address the obvious problems. But he's in over his head, just like the last 3 guys. If/when we move on from the Manny regime, it'll be another top to bottom cleanse, but the cleanse will have to go so much deeper than any of these guys realized. Who's up for that?
"The pervasive rot ..." you nailed it.
 
"The pervasive rot ..." you nailed it.
Season 4 Success GIF by The Office
 
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Comment about Stevenson is the truth. If we just had half the defense with his heart I would be happy
Well, it is obvious that TS is internally motivated and has that drive to be great within him. It's a no-brainer that kids like that need to be prioritized in recruitment (and he was, tbh) but the lack of that internal motivation isnt neessarily a death sentence, it CAN be instilled.

Culture starts from the top and honestly our coaches seem to want to be known as players' coaches. That might work in the NFL because those players are professionals but these kids are right out high school and they will be as undisciplined as you let them be. I watched film of TRob coaching some kids at fall practice and I liked how demanding he was but I've never seen it in a game.

When I see a player make a huge mistake and then Manny pats then on the *** and tells them essentially, "it's ok, go out there and get the next one tiger" I think wtf, these aren't 8-year old kids playing at the YMCA, there needs to be **** accountability. Saban's players don't ***** up and get a pat on the *** when they come off the field, they get ripped a new one and they learn.

Once the coaches set the tone THEN I think team leadership can fill in the gaps and hold each other accountable. Do your job -- if you don't do your job you are going to let your brothers down or get them hurt. But it's hard to see team culture fixing anything if the leadership doesn't crack the whip, so to speak.

We used to have both coaches who would motivate and team leaders who wouldn't allow mediocrity .... now we have neither. I want a HC who will get in someone's face and call them out for ****** play,.not make excuses for them and talk about how they looked really good in practice. A healthy dose of consequences and a little fear of the coaches' wrath would pay some real dividends.

They are soft because they are allowed to be soft.
 
But again, none of them were here in 2005 when that sh*t ball was big enough to start rolling. Not denying the admin is part of the problem, but again just part of it. It's bigger and deeper than that.
What’s “bigger and deeper” than the administration? They are the leadership and the leaders are the heart and soul of any culture.
 
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But again, none of them were here in 2005 when that sh*t ball was big enough to start rolling. Not denying the admin is part of the problem, but again just part of it. It's bigger and deeper than that.
It's bigger than Frenk, but as President he has the ability and responsibility to correct all problems at the []__[].

 
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The University of Miami doesn't care about building a winning football program.

The board of trustees is satisfied with the revenue kicked off from the ACC and adidas—and the minimal investment the program makes in coaches, facilities and the program all together.

Look at other universities; a program like Georgia and a "Do More" campaign a few years back in effort to make up what ground there is between their program and Alabama. They dumped over $200,000,000 in mostly alumni-donated dollars into their program—including an NCAA-most $7M on recruiting over a three-year span a few years back (even more than Bama's $6M+ and Tennessee's $5M.)

Cheap hire after cheap hire and an inability to lure in a quality name, outside of a Mark Richt about ten years passed when Miami needed him—not after the SEC kicked his *** for 15 years and he was ready to retire in 2016.

Look across the college football landscape; the best programs have the most money and the best coaches. Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, Clemson—these programs are arbitrarily good, and they're not just getting lucky. All have coaches in place (or that were in place who set the tone for the new guy) that have built powerhouses.

Miami has never had that guy—reliant on plug-and-play up and comers after Schnelly left—which was never the case after Butch bailed for the NFL.

Larry, Randy, Al, Mark and now Manny—a handful of clowns and amateurs that are not head coaching material, outside of Richt, who was simply washed up by the time he arrived.

College football is a monster in 2021 and Miami as a small private school is in big trouble in this big money game—like never before, UM absolutely needs a proven coach who knows how to tap into the program's successful DNA to get it done. Hire amateurs, get amateur results.

Miami should've fired Larry Coker after the 40-3 Peach Bowl debacle in 2005 and hired Butch Davis back in January 2006—five short years after he left—as everything else since then has been disastrous.

Mario Cristobal is literally Miami's only shot at a program rebuild, as no one else worth a squirt of **** would want this uphill battle, thankless job.
 
There are a lot of issues here but I don't think your analysis is helping get at them.

Why is the problem bigger than coaching? How would we know, if we continually hire incompetent coaches?

The issue with Admin is largely leadership in picking coaches and supporting the program (including infrastructure). They're not the reason coaches fail, except that they pick fails as coaches (and perhaps some behind the scenes things we can only guess at).

We have had mediocre talent because of a combination of bad evaluations and lazy recruiting leading to poor talent and depth and atrocious dispersion of talent (huge position group gaps at various times at key positions, including QB, WR, OL, DL and CB).

We have had terrible coaches, which is both the cause of the talent issue and a compounding problem because our talent would win more with better coaches.

People are looking for some magic explanation for what's *really* wrong. The answer is staring us in the face. This 'systemic' problem is simply bad coaching and infrastructure (and lack of institutional concern), and the downstream consequences thereof.

For 20 years, the fan debate has been this chase your tail game. Some people think the problem is coaching, and have attacked anyone who said talent was an issue because they thought that was an excuse for coaching. It's 'development!' Some said. Or 'scheme!' Others have said talent was an issue. The issue is obviously ALL OF THE ABOVE. They're interrelated. Coaches have to find talent, and develop it, and put it in a position to excel. And it has to be a balance of talent across the roster, so we don't have gaping unit holes that opponents can easily exploit, or massive depth issues.
This is a brilliant exposition. Well done.
 
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