Attrition''s effect on total roster

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deleted18246

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I am in the dark about how attrition affects the number of players on the roster. I believe teams can carry up to 85 scholarship players. However, if the team loses a lot of players to attrition, outside of graduation, they will be left with fewer than 85 to start the new season. That being said, how does a team ever get back to 85? What is the NCAA rule?
 
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Suggest you use the search feature on this site. to find a thread on this already created. We are at 57 scholarships now
 
If you look at the Elligibility chart listed here: https://www.canesinsight.com/player/eligibilitychart.php?team=5 all you really need to do is shift the players over (like jrs becoming srs, 2018 recruits becoming freshman) and pretend that when it says senior it means "1 yr elligible". When it says Freshman it means "4 yrs elligible" its a little off with not showing guys like gerald willis. But as of right now we have 78 on scholarship, we are looking to finish 2018 class with 7 more which puts us at 85.

For planning a roster there's basically 3 thing to know:

1. We can have 85 scholarship players per year. No matter what we can not go over this limit. We definitely want to be at 85, But if we are at like 84 or 83 one year and get back to 85 the next its not a big deal. At ALL times this limit must not be exceeded.

2. Every player has 4 years of eligibility. Meaning if you play at all, you are using one year of your eligibility. But there are some circumstances, like an injury waiver, allowing you to retain you eligibility even if you played in like one game. The other way to retain a yr of eligibility is by redshirting. If you redshirt you can NOT play that season, but you still get to keep the 4 yrs of eligibility. One example is Nkosi Perry, who didn't play this yr, so he still has 4 yrs eligible, but corey gaynor who played sparingly this yr only has 3 yrs remaining.

3. The most you can sign in a recruiting class is 25 "initial counters". This basically means that in any year you can only get 25 new players who are being put on scholarship. This is an absolute limit, However there is one kinda cheat to this, and its if a player enrolls early. The way the initial counter works is fluid due to the school year being 2 semesters per year. So because an Early Enrollee enters school for the first time in the second semester his "intial counter" can be used for the previous recruiting class or the class he currently is in. (example is Lorenzo lingard, who is an EE. His scholarship can technically count as part of the 2017 recruiting class' limit of 25 instead of the 2018 class's 25 limit) What this does is allow you to sign more than 25 in a recruiting class, while still technically only using 25 new scholarships per year. This is why our max class this year is 27 or 28 not 25. However, you also have to stay under rule 1 the entire time. So for example if we had 85 scholarships being used this past season, we would be unable to apply any EE to the previous yrs class because that would mean we had 86 scholarships for that year. This would mean 25 would be our absolulte max and not 27/28.


Now if you are planning a roster where you can have 85 scholarship players and each of those players can play 4 or 5 years, then just by simple math you'd want to recruit an average of between 17-22 players per year (even though the limit is 25 per year). However attrition can mean players leaving early via the draft or just transfering out. To account for that most schools try to recruit 25 per class and stay at 85 total every year. However you can see if you get 25 per year and they all played 4 years, by the 4th year youd have 100 players which obviously cant happen since the limit is 85. Thats how attrition can help a team, because they bring in more talent than they should, but dont actually ever surpass 85 total because so many players leave for the draft or transfer out due to being lost on the depth chart.

Attrition can hurt the depth chart just by simply leaving little depth. And thats what we saw these past couple years. We played with like 74 total scholarships this year. So depth was bad purely based on the amount of scholarships, but when you add in that Mullins left, Walton, got hurt and the rest of the injuries, it was really bad depth. Now its pretty clear how you fix that, you just take classes of 25 or more like we are currently doing. Basically we've been undergoing a 2 year fix of the roster to get us back to 85, which looks like it will finally happen next season once we get 27 in the 2018 recruiting class. The effect oversigning has, is it usually means a smaller class the next year. So because we will be signing a max class in 2018, that means no EEs for the 2019 class can be applied to the 2018 class. So 2019 has a maximum of 25 players (if we get 28/28 this yr which is the plan). Thats no matter what happens with attrition. Then you gotta factor in that if we are at 85 limit, and only have 15 seniors graduating, that would mean without any other attrition, we could ONLY get a 15 man class in 2019. So thats why guys who definitely wont get PT like Bar Milo, George brown, knowles, finley, etc should transfer out. ever person that leaves via attrition lets us sign one more than 15 up to 25.
 
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Unfortunately we've been well under 85 (I want to say in the high 70s) for the last few years. Doesn't seem like a lot, but every little bit can put you at a disadvantage.
 
Unfortunately we've been well under 85 (I want to say in the high 70s) for the last few years. Doesn't seem like a lot, but every little bit can put you at a disadvantage.

We've been way under 85 for years and it really had nothing to do with the ncaa,we self imposed by failing to land enough miami caliber recruits on NSD.I have no faith we'll be over 80 this season either once guys start leaving the team after spring practices.
 
I suspect we’re still going to be 5-10 under by the start of the season. If we keep signing 25-28 hopefully we can get to 82-83 and stay there.
 
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GOAT post on the topic.

If you look at the Elligibility chart listed here: https://www.canesinsight.com/player/eligibilitychart.php?team=5 all you really need to do is shift the players over (like jrs becoming srs, 2018 recruits becoming freshman) and pretend that when it says senior it means "1 yr elligible". When it says Freshman it means "4 yrs elligible" its a little off with not showing guys like gerald willis. But as of right now we have 78 on scholarship, we are looking to finish 2018 class with 7 more which puts us at 85.

For planning a roster there's basically 3 thing to know:

1. We can have 85 scholarship players per year. No matter what we can not go over this limit. We definitely want to be at 85, But if we are at like 84 or 83 one year and get back to 85 the next its not a big deal. At ALL times this limit must not be exceeded.

2. Every player has 4 years of eligibility. Meaning if you play at all, you are using one year of your eligibility. But there are some circumstances, like an injury waiver, allowing you to retain you eligibility even if you played in like one game. The other way to retain a yr of eligibility is by redshirting. If you redshirt you can NOT play that season, but you still get to keep the 4 yrs of eligibility. One example is Nkosi Perry, who didn't play this yr, so he still has 4 yrs eligible, but corey gaynor who played sparingly this yr only has 3 yrs remaining.

3. The most you can sign in a recruiting class is 25 "initial counters". This basically means that in any year you can only get 25 new players who are being put on scholarship. This is an absolute limit, However there is one kinda cheat to this, and its if a player enrolls early. The way the initial counter works is fluid due to the school year being 2 semesters per year. So because an Early Enrollee enters school for the first time in the second semester his "intial counter" can be used for the previous recruiting class or the class he currently is in. (example is Lorenzo lingard, who is an EE. His scholarship can technically count as part of the 2017 recruiting class' limit of 25 instead of the 2018 class's 25 limit) What this does is allow you to sign more than 25 in a recruiting class, while still technically only using 25 new scholarships per year. This is why our max class this year is 27 or 28 not 25. However, you also have to stay under rule 1 the entire time. So for example if we had 85 scholarships being used this past season, we would be unable to apply any EE to the previous yrs class because that would mean we had 86 scholarships for that year. This would mean 25 would be our absolulte max and not 27/28.


Now if you are planning a roster where you can have 85 scholarship players and each of those players can play 4 or 5 years, then just by simple math you'd want to recruit an average of between 17-22 players per year (even though the limit is 25 per year). However attrition can mean players leaving early via the draft or just transfering out. To account for that most schools try to recruit 25 per class and stay at 85 total every year. However you can see if you get 25 per year and they all played 4 years, by the 4th year youd have 100 players which obviously cant happen since the limit is 85. Thats how attrition can help a team, because they bring in more talent than they should, but dont actually ever surpass 85 total because so many players leave for the draft or transfer out due to being lost on the depth chart.

Attrition can hurt the depth chart just by simply leaving little depth. And thats what we saw these past couple years. We played with like 74 total scholarships this year. So depth was bad purely based on the amount of scholarships, but when you add in that Mullins left, Walton, got hurt and the rest of the injuries, it was really bad depth. Now its pretty clear how you fix that, you just take classes of 25 or more like we are currently doing. Basically we've been undergoing a 2 year fix of the roster to get us back to 85, which looks like it will finally happen next season once we get 27 in the 2018 recruiting class. The effect oversigning has, is it usually means a smaller class the next year. So because we will be signing a max class in 2018, that means no EEs for the 2019 class can be applied to the 2018 class. So 2019 has a maximum of 25 players (if we get 28/28 this yr which is the plan). Thats no matter what happens with attrition. Then you gotta factor in that if we are at 85 limit, and only have 15 seniors graduating, that would mean without any other attrition, we could ONLY get a 15 man class in 2019. So thats why guys who definitely wont get PT like Bar Milo, George brown, knowles, finley, etc should transfer out. ever person that leaves via attrition lets us sign one more than 15 up to 25.
 
This is great news for the slurpers and corch enablers. Gives them a built in excuse for next year.
 
Per 247, we have 10 early enrollees which pushes our total scholarship count now to 67. that includes the 10 that have signed but not enrolled and takes into account all kids publicly transferring including sheriffs. wow!
 
Per 247, we have 10 early enrollees which pushes our total scholarship count now to 67. that includes the 10 that have signed but not enrolled and takes into account all kids publicly transferring including sheriffs. wow!

does it include Jamie Gordinier ? gerald willis?
 
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Per 247, we have 10 early enrollees which pushes our total scholarship count now to 67. that includes the 10 that have signed but not enrolled and takes into account all kids publicly transferring including sheriffs. wow!

does it include Jamie Gordinier ? gerald willis?

includes willis as he is still on scholarship and has not publicly declared that he is transferring or quitting. my number does not include jaime because he publicly declared he was stopping football due to the injuries. i have not heard anything that we are keeping him on scholarship. if you have then we are at 68

with that being said, i don't see anyway we sign 16-17 more players for 2018
 
Per 247, we have 10 early enrollees which pushes our total scholarship count now to 67. that includes the 10 that have signed but not enrolled and takes into account all kids publicly transferring including sheriffs. wow!

does it include Jamie Gordinier ? gerald willis?

includes willis as he is still on scholarship and has not publicly declared that he is transferring or quitting. my number does not include jaime because he publicly declared he was stopping football due to the injuries. i have not heard anything that we are keeping him on scholarship. if you have then we are at 68

with that being said, i don't see anyway we sign 16-17 more players for 2018

i agree with what you're saying, but i have us at 56, not 57. is the new transfer from tennessee included in that 57 number?
 
This is the completely up to date roster as far as I can tell

Richt said our max class is 27 (or was it 28?). Either way I take that to mean only 2-3 EE's can be applied to the previous class (thats when the 2017 class will hit their 25initial limit). So since we have 19 enrolled, and 1 commit (Nesta), that leaves us with 7 more spots available for the 2019 class which ideally would be:

1. Tyson Campbell (CB)
2. Patrick Surtain (CB)
3. Michael Thompson or Keondre Coburn (DT's)....or both!
4. Andrew Chatfield (DE)
5. Marquez Ezzard (WR)
6. Jamarcus Chatman (DE/DT)
7. Dennis Briggs or Dorian Gerald (DE/DT's)

However as you can see since Shireffs announced he's transferring, we officially will not be back to 85 by next season (We'll be at 84). But again that doesn't really matter that much, and I'd expect all the guys that I list in Red to Transfer out between now and 2019. The guys listed in Blue are the ones that are most likely to Declare early for the draft.

CanesRosterPreNSD_2018.webp
 
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