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A Reasonable Comparison of Coaches

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UMFarArcher said:
CaneTheGaytors said:
This thread is meant to discuss the similarities and differences that some of these coaches may have. It is NOT a thread to bash any of these guys, as they are all accomplished head coaches in different ways.

For example, state the reasons why you think Patterson is a better fit than Miles, what their similarities and differences are, etc.

I will start!

I will begin by comparing Butch, Harbaugh and Kelly. I know Harbaugh isn't a viable option, but wanted to use him for comparisons sake.

All three men are good program builders. This cannot be denied.

All three have brought programs up from the ashes and left them much better than where they were before they got there.

Chip took an Oregon team that sucked for years and made them a perennial winner, even though he could never win the ship.

Harbaugh inherited a horrible program that hadn't done **** in ages. He methodically rebuilt it in his 4 years there and left it in a great place.

Butch, as we know inherited a huge mess at Miami. He had to deal with almost Death Penalty like sanctions. Yet still, he rebuilt the program and left it at a very high standard.

Think about USC and their sanctions. People think they haven't been great because of coaching, but that's only part of it. Huge scholarship losses affects the depth of a team tremendously.

Announcers use to bring this up during big games back then. It's not that we didn't have talented players. We just didn't have enough of them. Guys would be totally gassed by the second halves of big games, after being competitive in the first half, especially our D-lines.

This is the same scenario Butch had do deal with back in the day. Yet, he still managed to get the team to push through until help arrived. Once the first 3 years were done with and he started to get a full number of scholarships, we all saw what he could do.

Most of you guys forget how creative he had to get to add talent to our squad. He brought Santana in on a track scholarship. Santana Moss wasn't highly sought after, yet Butch brought him in, coached him up and unleashed him.

I believe Chip Kelly is a good College Football coach if out in the right conference. His game is predicated on having to out score the other team. His defenses are usually mediocre. In the Pac-10, almost nobody plays defense. It's a shoot-out league like the BIG 12.

This is the reason why he never won a title in my opinion. When playing the big boys, Bama, Taint, Oklahoma, FSU, etc., you better have a defense, because they usually will.

Oregon's beat down of FSU last year was an anomaly, not the norm. It was the perfect storm. Noles had barely been squeaking by all their opponents, lots of turmoil during the season thanks to Winston. They got punched in the mouth and flat out quit in that game.

However, when they played Taint, it was a whole different story. Taint's defense is full of savagery, which is what usually stops Kelly's style of offense. I know Kelly wasn't the coach for that game, but Oregon is still running his system. Different head coach, same result in a big game against a great defense.

By the way, Jim Harbaugh's record at Stanford was:

2007: 4-8
2008: 5-7
2009: 8-5
2010: 12-1

Butch had better records than this while dealing with huge scholarship losses. So, if your logic is correct, then Jim Harbaugh is also not a good game day coach.

However, we all believe Harbaugh to be a great coach, myself included. What is the difference between him and Butch?

Similarities between the 2:

1. Harbaugh has also never won a title in college or the pro's and coached in the pro's at a historically great organization, the 49'ers.
Now granted, he did a great job with them, but still a huge difference between the 49'ers and the Cleveland Browns.

2. They both brought programs back from the depths of despair. Stanford hadn't been relevant in years. Miami was hit with almost Death Penalty level sanctions.

3. They both instill savagery and confidence in their squads.

4. They are both great developers of talent.

5. They both have only 1 10-win season as college coaches.

6. Harbaugh inherited a team with really good talent that was being held back by Hoke. Butch would be in a similar situation at Miami if hired.

7. It can be argued that Stanford has been consistently better since Harbaugh left, as proven by their W-L record after he left. Of course, it would be lunacy to believe this. The reason for this is because he built it and they are maintaining it. At Miami, the BoT took the formula that Butch left in place and chat on it.

My whole point with this is that you can't **** on a guy because he only has one 10-win season. Butch had similar records at UNC compared to Harbaugh at Stanford in their first 3 years. Then a bunch of his starters were suspended for the season and some for parts of it in his 4th season, and there went any hope of being great.

Most experts believed that they would contend that year. But then the **** hit the fan. Through all this, he still managed a respectable 8-5 record in his last season at UNC.

Kelly is a great hire if you want to win 10-11 games a year. There's no doubt about this.

In my opinion, Butch Davis is a great hire if you want to have a program that wins Championships. He is the only one of the list of coaches that are being considered with National Championship and Super Bowl rings.

He was a great D-Coordinator and has the best eye for talent out of all the cats that are being considered.

He will put a great staff together. His coaching tree has yielded some very good coaches.

Great recruiter and developer of talent.

Aside from J.J., Urban, Saban, Patterson or Dantonio, I don't think there is a better hire.

I wouldn't be mad if we hired Chip Kelly. I think the guy has proven that he can win games in college football. It's just my opinion that Butch is the better hire for the reasons that I have stated.
Click to expand...

Chip did NOT rebuild a bad team. Chip was given a very good team, and just look at Oregon's record for the two years before he took over.

Chip has NEVER rebuilt, or even built a college team.

Never.
Click to expand...

I know Archer. It was my mistake.

At the end of the day, I still want Butch.

I cannot see a guy like Chip here. The more I see of his defensive style, the more I shudder. Even in Oregon, his defenses gave up a bunch of points and yards.

I just cannot imagine a fan base wanting a guy so bad whose team is getting raped weekly. Today was a flat out embarrassment for Philly. It reminded me of Folden.

Saban's Dolphin teams were never this awful. I should know, I'm a long time tortured 'Fins fan. Even Saban admits that the crucial mistake in his tenure there was signing Culpepper instead of Brees.

Chip has made mistake after mistake in the handling of that roster. Reminds me of Folden in his stubbornness.
 
CaneTheGaytors said:
UMFarArcher said:
CaneTheGaytors said:
This thread is meant to discuss the similarities and differences that some of these coaches may have. It is NOT a thread to bash any of these guys, as they are all accomplished head coaches in different ways.

For example, state the reasons why you think Patterson is a better fit than Miles, what their similarities and differences are, etc.

I will start!

I will begin by comparing Butch, Harbaugh and Kelly. I know Harbaugh isn't a viable option, but wanted to use him for comparisons sake.

All three men are good program builders. This cannot be denied.

All three have brought programs up from the ashes and left them much better than where they were before they got there.

Chip took an Oregon team that sucked for years and made them a perennial winner, even though he could never win the ship.

Harbaugh inherited a horrible program that hadn't done **** in ages. He methodically rebuilt it in his 4 years there and left it in a great place.

Butch, as we know inherited a huge mess at Miami. He had to deal with almost Death Penalty like sanctions. Yet still, he rebuilt the program and left it at a very high standard.

Think about USC and their sanctions. People think they haven't been great because of coaching, but that's only part of it. Huge scholarship losses affects the depth of a team tremendously.

Announcers use to bring this up during big games back then. It's not that we didn't have talented players. We just didn't have enough of them. Guys would be totally gassed by the second halves of big games, after being competitive in the first half, especially our D-lines.

This is the same scenario Butch had do deal with back in the day. Yet, he still managed to get the team to push through until help arrived. Once the first 3 years were done with and he started to get a full number of scholarships, we all saw what he could do.

Most of you guys forget how creative he had to get to add talent to our squad. He brought Santana in on a track scholarship. Santana Moss wasn't highly sought after, yet Butch brought him in, coached him up and unleashed him.

I believe Chip Kelly is a good College Football coach if out in the right conference. His game is predicated on having to out score the other team. His defenses are usually mediocre. In the Pac-10, almost nobody plays defense. It's a shoot-out league like the BIG 12.

This is the reason why he never won a title in my opinion. When playing the big boys, Bama, Taint, Oklahoma, FSU, etc., you better have a defense, because they usually will.

Oregon's beat down of FSU last year was an anomaly, not the norm. It was the perfect storm. Noles had barely been squeaking by all their opponents, lots of turmoil during the season thanks to Winston. They got punched in the mouth and flat out quit in that game.

However, when they played Taint, it was a whole different story. Taint's defense is full of savagery, which is what usually stops Kelly's style of offense. I know Kelly wasn't the coach for that game, but Oregon is still running his system. Different head coach, same result in a big game against a great defense.

By the way, Jim Harbaugh's record at Stanford was:

2007: 4-8
2008: 5-7
2009: 8-5
2010: 12-1

Butch had better records than this while dealing with huge scholarship losses. So, if your logic is correct, then Jim Harbaugh is also not a good game day coach.

However, we all believe Harbaugh to be a great coach, myself included. What is the difference between him and Butch?

Similarities between the 2:

1. Harbaugh has also never won a title in college or the pro's and coached in the pro's at a historically great organization, the 49'ers.
Now granted, he did a great job with them, but still a huge difference between the 49'ers and the Cleveland Browns.

2. They both brought programs back from the depths of despair. Stanford hadn't been relevant in years. Miami was hit with almost Death Penalty level sanctions.

3. They both instill savagery and confidence in their squads.

4. They are both great developers of talent.

5. They both have only 1 10-win season as college coaches.

6. Harbaugh inherited a team with really good talent that was being held back by Hoke. Butch would be in a similar situation at Miami if hired.

7. It can be argued that Stanford has been consistently better since Harbaugh left, as proven by their W-L record after he left. Of course, it would be lunacy to believe this. The reason for this is because he built it and they are maintaining it. At Miami, the BoT took the formula that Butch left in place and chat on it.

My whole point with this is that you can't **** on a guy because he only has one 10-win season. Butch had similar records at UNC compared to Harbaugh at Stanford in their first 3 years. Then a bunch of his starters were suspended for the season and some for parts of it in his 4th season, and there went any hope of being great.

Most experts believed that they would contend that year. But then the **** hit the fan. Through all this, he still managed a respectable 8-5 record in his last season at UNC.

Kelly is a great hire if you want to win 10-11 games a year. There's no doubt about this.

In my opinion, Butch Davis is a great hire if you want to have a program that wins Championships. He is the only one of the list of coaches that are being considered with National Championship and Super Bowl rings.

He was a great D-Coordinator and has the best eye for talent out of all the cats that are being considered.

He will put a great staff together. His coaching tree has yielded some very good coaches.

Great recruiter and developer of talent.

Aside from J.J., Urban, Saban, Patterson or Dantonio, I don't think there is a better hire.

I wouldn't be mad if we hired Chip Kelly. I think the guy has proven that he can win games in college football. It's just my opinion that Butch is the better hire for the reasons that I have stated.
Click to expand...

Chip did NOT rebuild a bad team. Chip was given a very good team, and just look at Oregon's record for the two years before he took over.

Chip has NEVER rebuilt, or even built a college team.

Never.
Click to expand...

I know Archer. It was my mistake.

At the end of the day, I still want Butch.

I cannot see a guy like Chip here. The more I see of his defensive style, the more I shudder. Even in Oregon, his defenses gave up a bunch of points and yards.

I just cannot imagine a fan base wanting a guy so bad whose team is getting raped weekly. Today was a flat out embarrassment for Philly. It reminded me of Folden.

Saban's Dolphin teams were never this awful. I should know, I'm a long time tortured 'Fins fan. Even Saban admits that the crucial mistake in his tenure there was signing Culpepper instead of Brees.

Chip has made mistake after mistake in the handling of that roster. Reminds me of Folden in his stubbornness.
Click to expand...

The truth shall set you free, but guaranteed Buffalochip Kelly will be in the NFL next year.
 
Guaranteed.

He's a good coach, but really got sideways at the Eagles. As another poster at the WEZ suggested, if he's not at Philly, he may be at the Titans.

Fine by me.
 
Chip played for one or two championships at Oregon. A couple footballs bounce his way and he's got a couple ships
 
I agree with everything
Kelly can kill it 10-11 wins annually but he wont win that title and thats what i want. I know he will keep us in the hunt though, butch is jim same thing a physical style that makes teams quit i love that and hes done it here before


Great post foreel
 
MarshallCane said:
NVA CANE said:
The way I look at the next coaching hire, I think we should go with a guy that can do less with more through his game day coaching. One of the big changes in CFB is the proliferation of offensive systems that level the playing field vs teams that are more talented than they are.

Baylor, Oregon, Texas Tech, TCU (now), etc would have zero shot against loaded teams 10 or so years ago. Now it's much more leveled and you see Bama getting upset by teams that don't have the talent they do.

If I were the AD I would look at the landscape of CFB today and think that getting a coach that does less with more at Miami that has access to elite talent would do wonders here.

I think the idea of out talenting your opponent is a dying concept. You're not gonna recruit much better than Bama and they still struggle against these spread offenses. Les Miles who relies on a talent advantage is now struggling because his talent can't overcome his sometimes questionable coaching.

I think there is a legit question to be asked as to whether out talenting your opponent is going to get you a national championship. IMO, it will not.
Click to expand...

None of the schools you named have won a MNC. Look at the names that win the championship every year and nobody runs these kinds of offenses except Urbans teams somewhat (who has a top defense every year). If you consider what Auburn did close than whatever. But It's dying really?

Put me in the group that doesn't give a **** how we win.. But FSU, Bama, Auburn, LSU, Ohio State all "out talent" people every single year and win. If not then TCU, Baylor, Oregon would be winning it every year. But they're not. Talent matters.
Click to expand...

People that mention tcus of the world i always say what have they won? There losing to more talent yearly and the most talented teams r still winning titles
 
We've had BBB circle jerk crew members comparing Corch Butch to George Patton, Nick Saban, and Urban Meyer. Now Corch Butch is being compared to Jim Harbaugh and Chip Kelly...lmao!

Moar!
 
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MarshallCane said:
None of the schools you named have won a MNC. Look at the names that win the championship every year and nobody runs these kinds of offenses except Urbans teams somewhat (who has a top defense every year). If you consider what Auburn did close than whatever. But It's dying really?
Click to expand...


Why wouldn't Ohio St* and Auburn be grouped in with those offenses? They're uptempo spreads that use the read option.

Those two schools serve as proof that you can pound the ball on the ground out of the spread AND have a good defense.
 
McGahee2TheHouse said:
CaneInHeelCountry said:
Chip didn't build Oregon. Mike Bellotti did. Chip had a solid run, but Oregon was already well-established as a yearly PAC-10 contender and 9- to 11-wins per year kinda team.
Click to expand...

Chip was his offensive coordinator, so it's not like he had no part in making Oregon "well-established" before being the HC
Click to expand...
Chip came aboard in 2007. Oregon had 3 10+ win seasons in 5 years prior to him coming
 
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