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Well....that "should" put a pretty clear end to this discussion.

Exactly. Nash made 3rd team NBA in 2002 and 2003 while he was still on Dallas and before hand checking rules changed. Going to Phoenix and playing in D'antoni's system combined with the rule changes fully unlocked Nash - but dude was an all NBA player before any of those things.

It was all of them working together Bryan Colangeo had already been building a smaller, faster European type team before Nash got there. In 2003 the Suns were starting Marbury (who wasn't as good as Nash), Penny Hardaway (who was broken down at this point), Marion (coming into his prime), Joe...

All this. Plus.... 1) Steph gets his shot off quicker than anyone I've seen 2) Steph would be shooting 3's in ways that just didn't happen then - in transition, step-backs, off of cross-overs - it would blow defenders minds. The only thing that could hold Steph back is 90% of the coaches back...

The rule changes were only part of the perfect storm that was Nash's first MVP. Nash was already a 2 time All Star before getting to Phoenix. It was the combo of: 1) The rule changes 2) Mike D'Antoni's pace & space style in his first full year as a head coach was revolutionary and the perfect...

Yeah, the early 90's Paul Westhead Nuggets are the only real close example of playing with pace and shooting 3's in a similar way to today. Problem is they weren't talented. Their starting lineup was: Michael Adams Todd Lichti Reggie Williams Orlando Woolridge (Jordan's original #2 guy) Blair...

Adams was also an All Star the next year in 91/92 averaging 18 ppg on 39% shooting. Same inefficiency as when he put up 26, he just shot less. Adams was that inefficient and still one of the best in the game in the early 90's. So if Steph could put up numbers in the early 90's - starting...

Michael Adams 5-10, 162 lbs. 1990/91 averages 26.5 pts Here's Adams dropping 31 on the Celtics that season. I don't know how you can watch this and think Steph Curry wouldn't drop 30 a game.

So just speaking to the athleticism part - I think the main problem, and believe me I do this all the time, is mixing & matching who was on what team. For example.... Starks & Sprewell never played on the same team Mason & Larry Johnson never played on the same team Larry Johnson - I love...

But your point is the NBA is less athletic now - not that it's less physical, which no one would argue. Do you consider Ewing, Oakley, Mason explosive athletes? Do you consider the 90's Knicks teams more athletic than the 2015-18 Cavs?

Probably just wins 1 MVP instead of 2.

So take any other position - SG, SF, PF, C - and give me your Top 10 athletes from the 90's at those positions. I really have no idea what this would look like - but you can't just keep comparing individual players. You have to look at a larger group to get a clearer picture.

Right - but you're just comparing Nash to Stockton - it's just one guy. Now do the same comparison with Nash & Mark Price or Terry Porter - they all shoot about he same amount. Compare him to Payton, Strickland, Hardaway - Nash shoots way less. Compare him to Mark Jackson or Bouges - Nash...

Iverson was a phenomenal athlete - but even he wasn't an above the rim player most of his career. After his first 2 years he quickly stopped trying to dunk on people and shot runners instead. Nash still never shot the ball much even when hand checking rules relaxed because he was in the old...

So who were the Guards that couldn't shoot in the 90's that were thriving more than today? Here's a list of averages by season: https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html Players have been getting younger and bigger (weight wise) than the 90's. Players get up more...

PG's in the 90's weren't anymore athletic than Nash, Young, Curry, etc. They just played a different role in that they were facilitators more than scorers. There were some above the rim PG's like KJ & Penny who you've mentioned. Today you've got Westbrook, Simmons, Morant, etc. The large...

My point would be athleticism isn't going anywhere. 2018 was a bit of an anomaly with the best 2 players. 2019 had Ja Morant who's a big team athlete and Zion is unlike anything the NBA has ever seen before If you look at the best players from the last 5 drafts - ones that have made an All...

That's 2018. So who were your Top 2 players headed into the last 5 drafts? 2019 - Instead of Zion/Ja Morant - were you more of a RJ Barrett/De'Andre Hunter type guy? 2017 - Instead of Ball/Tatum - were you more of a Lauri Markannen type guy? 2016 - Instead of Simmons/Ingram - were you more...

I think you're doing a bit of the same thing here D$. You mention centers like Robinson, Shaq, Olajuwon, Ewing as great athletes. There's Centers right now like Rudy Gobert, Client Capela, Mitchell Robinson, Serge Ibaka, etc. who are nowhere near the players, but every bit the athletes. As...

It's not how athletic the Lakers are this point, it's are they more athletic in comparison to the Bulls? Is Rondo more athletic than Kerr? Is Howard more athletic than Longley? Is McGee more athletic than Wennington? Is Green more athletic than Harper (this one is probably a wash)? Just in...