Little things + Position Groups from the Traz Scrimmage

swampcougar1

Redshirt Freshman
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
797
I will make my decisions after the first game. After a couple weeks of spring practice over reactions are rediculous. I do enjoy reading all the reactions and truth is probably somewhere in the middle of the over and unders. Would be nice to get back to ths days of just reloading every year but do not see that happening before a few very good years.
 

jd716

Recruit
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
227
Our defensive coaches have just butchered recruiting. We’re basically thin at every position.
Yet, every single one of them was retained.
I don't think LB was necessarily butchered, a lot of factors went in to why we are thin there. Safety and DE aren't thin either.
 

hoover437

Senior
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
2,775
Spoken like a dummy..who's never played a competitive sport in his life. These are 18-22 old kids!! Also..Ed Reed is one of the greatest football players of all time at any level. Comparing him to the QBs currently on the roster doesn't make sense.
Ed Reed and that whole team learned how to win from the coaching, funny how our program has lost that since the last of butchs players left the program and bad coaching took over!
 

PalyCane

Sophomore
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
856
This offense is based on throwing the ball in the pocket. He has to learn how to play under center too. He basically has to learn something different from high school, and Ohio State, plus beat out guys who have better arm talent than he has.
Yeah I'm not sure this is the best offense for him. I think he can likely be a successful college QB, but what we seem to be doing on offense minimizes his strengths and accentuates his shortcomings relative to N'kosi and Williams.

Even in his 10-10 OSU performance (coming in with a 42-3 lead against an obviously over matched and already beaten up Rutgers) makes the point. Not one of the ten throws attacked the middle or depended on any more than one read (except the times he started running around and playing scramble ball). Every throw whether short, intermediate or deep was to a single covered WR along the sideline where he could make one quick read. When that wasn't there he started immediately scrambling, bought time and found another receiver on a broken play. (And again, this was against a Rutgers team who was so beaten they were just looking for the game to end and go home.)

In yesterday's scrimmage things looked similar in that whenever he threw in the middle of the field I was left wondering what in the world he was seeing. And as others have mentioned, working from under center isn't his strength.

Just like with boxing, styles make fights and it makes college QB's as well. Martell's game seems to thrive on causing defenses to fear him and account for him as running threat, which also pulls a defensive guy from coverage making the reads easier and passing success less dependent on a QB who can surgically dissect coverages with pin pinpoint passing. The 7th ranked offense system that Kendall Briles ran at Houston using D'Eriq King of all people would be a great fit for what Martell can do.

Folks in this thread have observed that he's learning a new way of play QB and still getting comfortable, and that possibly he can absorb all of this and really turn things around come fall practice. All of this is entirely possible and I'll be pulling for him to do so inasmuch as I want the very best QB on the field on Aug 24th. Right now however he looks to be a duck out of water to my eyes and this includes the brief footage from OSU last year. Right now he looks to me like a guy who's a dual threat QB, and at least so far that doesn't look to be the offense that Enos is going to run.
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
4,685
I'm not buying the Tate excuses. Enos seems to be building a dink and dunk offense that emphasizes getting the ball out quickly to the WR/ TE/ RB in space.

Tate can handle that.

Perry and JW are throwing to new WRs as well, and they had no problem hitting KJ and Payton.

He just had a horrific day yesterday. Crowd was close to booing him.
 

jjjrcanes

Sophomore
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
644
Just some notes I thought might be good for discussion:

- Coaches seem to have a better sense for testing situations and scenarios that carry over to actual game play. This had been a tremendous issue in previous regime and I had complained about it since first watching practice "success" and wondering how that could realistically carry over to games. The example I usually gave was watching Berrios (play X WR, outside) and closely protected Kaaya play pitch and catch on in-breaking routes. Then, of course, fail miserably in key situations (like FSU 2016).

Some examples from the adjustment by this regime include 1s vs 1s. Another more subtle example was rotating QBs with specific combination of players. Instead of just letting Martell, for example, do work against 3s, he'd intentionally get rolled into play against the 1s, for example. In past years, you could basically climb the depth chart or simply "look good" by being a 1 playing against 2s.

- QB situation. Without having watched absolutely anything other than this scrimmage, you'd have a hard time convincing me anyone is going to play over Jarren Williams. And, it has nothing to do with the stats. His footwork is better. He's a better fit for what I suspect this offense is being molded to become. Some subtle things stick out: he has better touch. There seem to be a lot of timing routes and, especially in the redzone, attacks on the corner.

When N'kosi threw his corner route, he literally tossed it out of bounds. When Jarren threw his corner route to the right side of the same endzone, it'd have likely hit the pylon, and ultimately went off the fingertips of Osborn. Is the competition over? Obviously not. But, ask yourself who reminds you most of Brandon Allen's skill set. He's the QB who had the most success with Enos (while calling plays). It'll likely be a fight over the summer off the field and then in Fall camp again.

Again, I'm extremely limited in terms of watching practice and drills so far, but Tate was seemingly out of whack today under center (and even otherwise). He can fire the hell out of the ball, as seen on a couple darts toward the sideline, but his feet were all over the place. N'kosi made some throws, but then also sailed a couple balls (like an out). He did show better touch than I expected. Let them all continue to fight it out.

- RB situation. About what you'd expect. I think Cam is the guy here unless Lingard makes a move. Speaking of Lingard, he looks noticeably better molded from a body type standpoint. His bottom half now better matches his strong upper body. Look forward to seeing him on those draw plays!

- OL situation. Bring in Mr. Miyagi. Whatever is necessary. We need more, healthy and better bodies. If anyone has a clear opinion on the OL now, I'm all ears. What they're going to be significantly helped by is the amount of diversity in our run game. It makes a tremendous difference when we run delays, draws, shift players, etc. I will say I'm curious to see how much more of that diversity Enos introduces because I don't think we have the horses just yet to line up under center and play smash mouth football down hill.

- DL situation. Pray for Jon Ford's wrist. We need another DT to step up badly. Tried to key on Jordan Miller and I don't see the leap coming from there just yet. Bethel will be helpful, but would be great as a 3rd or 4th rotational guy (think Moten). Nesta needs to continue to diversify his moves, as I'm sure he's doing, but he should be solid. The DEnds are going to be nasty for us. Garvin is Garvin. Rousseau will exceed the reset expectations, I think. All he does is make plays. Patchan looks better than I expected and Hill is on his way.

- LB situation. Depending on what finally happened with Bradley Jennings today, the depth is, as has been discussed, scary. Keep the experienced guys off the field as much as possible for now. Pinckney looks better than I've seen him and is still one of the better sneaky blitzers I've seen at UM since my guy Nate Webster. Need the kids to come in, eat deer antler, and contribute to depth.

- DB situation. Feel a little better about our CB situation. But, still razor thin. Watched Hall almost the entire time. He'll be fine. Need a second Safety with a skill set closer to Redwine. Right now, if I'm an opponent's OC, I attack us via twins and through the slot. We'll see how this comes together in the Fall.

Overall, it was relatively sloppy out there, but it's a scrimmage. Gotta watch for little things that carry over, can be developed over summer/Fall or are red flags. The coaches weren't lying, it seems: we need significant work, but nothing to panic over.
Hey LuCane! You're basically right on the money with your assessment of the scrimmage as far as how things are beginning to line up!

But the only disagreement is with the QB situation as it stands today!! I see Perry as the razor edge thin leader in that race! I thought he did abetter job of getting the ball out quicker then Williams. Both did a nice job of finding the open receiver. Perry did sail a few passes once he got in the red zone but it may have been to prevent it from being intercepted. Williams had a few guys open down field but hesitated too long to deliver the pass and either under threw them or over throw them. One should have been intercepted but it went for a TD off a reflection.

Tate however is falling behind at this point and need to settle down like you said. I think he's trying too hard instead of letting the plays develop. It's early so let see if he can work it out.
 

jjjrcanes

Sophomore
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
644
I'm not buying the Tate excuses. Enos seems to be building a dink and dunk offense that emphasizes getting the ball out quickly to the WR/ TE/ RB in space.

Tate can handle that.

Perry and JW are throwing to new WRs as well, and they had no problem hitting KJ and Payton.

He just had a horrific day yesterday. Crowd was close to booing him.
Perry and Williams were finding the receiver quickly and ball out of hands. I think Tate is suffering from lack of good height. Our DL doesnt give him much room to see if he doesn't get out of the pocket. If he doesn't give the plays time to develop before he start to scramble, I really don't think he will make it in this offense. Enos is about discipline and timing of his offense.
 

DCH

Junior
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
1,088
Perry and Williams are pretty close in my eyes. Perry has more natural arm talent but Williams is more consistently accurate and steady when things break down. At the same time, Williams also made more mistakes against the 1s.

Tate did some good things but is clearly behind the other two. He just doesn’t have the natural arm talent to make accurate downfield throws when his feet aren’t set. The problem is that his lack of height and our o line (particularly when going against our d line) exacerbate this problem by forcing him into situations where he needs to throw without having the opportunity to get set.

I do agree with Lu that Williams seems like a better fit for what Enos seems to be looking to do offensively. However Enos is so multiple and we kept things fairly conservative yesterday so that it isn’t all that clear yet what Enos plans to do here. At Arkansas they would look completely different week to week particularly when things weren’t going well towards the end. Williams may be closer to Brandon’s allen’s skill set but that doesn’t mean that Enos wants to run what he ran at Arkansas with Allen under Bielema who has his own philosophy Enos was tasked with implementing.

Nothing too surprising from the offensive skill guys. Osborn seems really solid fundamentally and will be a dependable safety blanket. I would like to see more Pope.

I was expecting the worst from the O line and they were better than I feared. I think Campbell and Hillary can be serviceable for us. I don’t think Scaife is an LT and I expect more shuffling before August 24th, for better or worse.

Our first team defense will be good. We are just incredibly thin everywhere on that side of the ball. We have plenty of young guys coming in but not many that will be ready day one.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
12,866
Martell is not playing anywhere near to his ability, it's almost like it's on purpose, especially putting him under center for most snaps. I think El Jefe is trying to pull a fast one on da turds. Seriously though, something is going on with him and it probably has to do unfamiliarity with everything at this point. New school, environment, teammates, OC/QB coach, etc. He's learning how to be a teammate to a completely new set of brothers and also trying to learn how Enos wants things; while also learning new timing with WRs he hasn't played with.
I think we'll see a completely different QB in him by the time the season starts.
I think Martell has to learn this new offensive scheme and adjust to pulling out from center - he has time, but it won’t happen in three weeks in spring.

If he works hard and doesn’t get down on himself or the system, he has a few months to make it happen before practice starts in July.

But in the end, if he’s to be the starter, I think the offense will by necessity have to be different, to a certain extent, from the offense we would run for Kosi/JW. I think he would still be used more in a shotgun/spread type approach for a significant number of snaps.

For that to happen, he needs to win the competition outright.

Anything can happen, I think he can win the competition and run an offense that is a combination of the Enos offense while it also suits his skills.

But don’t get your heart set on him, and him alone. He may not win the competition.
 

duke4heisman

Senior
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
6,036
I think Martell has to learn this new offensive scheme and adjust to pulling out from center - he has time, but it won’t happen in three weeks in spring.

If he works hard and doesn’t get down on himself or the system, he has a few months to make it happen before practice starts in July.

But in the end, if he’s to be the starter, I think the offense will by necessity have to be different, to a certain extent, from the offense we would run for Kosi/JW. I think he would still be used more in a shotgun/spread type approach for a significant number of snaps.

For that to happen, he needs to win the competition outright.

Anything can happen, I think he can win the competition and run an offense that is a combination of the Enos offense while it also suits his skills.

But don’t get your heart set on him, and him alone. He may not win the competition.
I agree which is why I kinda wonder why they went so hard after him and Matocha. They are different types than Kosi and Jarren. I think Enos wants a more spread, spacing type of offense but doesn't know what he mainly needs to install based on the best QB available this season. Once Tate settles in and Matocha arrives, it could get more interesting.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
12,866
I agree which is why I kinda wonder why they went so hard after him and Matocha. They are different types than Kosi and Jarren. I think Enos wants a more spread, spacing type of offense but doesn't know what he mainly needs to install based on the best QB available this season. Once Tate settles in and Matocha arrives, it could get more interesting.
I don’t even know what Matocha is suited to, and how adaptable he is
 

TimeB0mb

Junior
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Messages
3,911
I agree which is why I kinda wonder why they went so hard after him and Matocha. They are different types than Kosi and Jarren. I think Enos wants a more spread, spacing type of offense but doesn't know what he mainly needs to install based on the best QB available this season. Once Tate settles in and Matocha arrives, it could get more interesting.
If you told me about a team with a 3 qb competition where qb1 was the 4 star incumbent qb the previous year, qb2 was the 4 star recruit backup, and qb3 was a 4 star transfer, and asked me to guess 3 weeks into practice how they would be ranked, I'd predict 1, 2, 3 in order. No surprises here. Martell is the only qb on the rooster with a HS completion % above 60%. I'm sticking with my theory that completion % is the best predictor of success.
 

twes.305

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
1,426
Perry and Williams are pretty close in my eyes. Perry has more natural arm talent but Williams is more consistently accurate and steady when things break down. At the same time, Williams also made more mistakes against the 1s.

Tate did some good things but is clearly behind the other two. He just doesn’t have the natural arm talent to make accurate downfield throws when his feet aren’t set. The problem is that his lack of height and our o line (particularly when going against our d line) exacerbate this problem by forcing him into situations where he needs to throw without having the opportunity to get set.

I do agree with Lu that Williams seems like a better fit for what Enos seems to be looking to do offensively. However Enos is so multiple and we kept things fairly conservative yesterday so that it isn’t all that clear yet what Enos plans to do here. At Arkansas they would look completely different week to week particularly when things weren’t going well towards the end. Williams may be closer to Brandon’s allen’s skill set but that doesn’t mean that Enos wants to run what he ran at Arkansas with Allen under Bielema who has his own philosophy Enos was tasked with implementing.

Nothing too surprising from the offensive skill guys. Osborn seems really solid fundamentally and will be a dependable safety blanket. I would like to see more Pope.

I was expecting the worst from the O line and they were better than I feared. I think Campbell and Hillary can be serviceable for us. I don’t think Scaife is an LT and I expect more shuffling before August 24th, for better or worse.

Our first team defense will be good. We are just incredibly thin everywhere on that side of the ball. We have plenty of young guys coming in but not many that will be ready day one.
I do think that Christian Williams, Keontra Smith, and depending on how much Sam Brooks and Avery Huff weigh, these will be the freshman that can contribute.
 

jjjrcanes

Sophomore
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
644
Perry and Williams are pretty close in my eyes. Perry has more natural arm talent but Williams is more consistently accurate and steady when things break down. At the same time, Williams also made more mistakes against the 1s.

Tate did some good things but is clearly behind the other two. He just doesn’t have the natural arm talent to make accurate downfield throws when his feet aren’t set. The problem is that his lack of height and our o line (particularly when going against our d line) exacerbate this problem by forcing him into situations where he needs to throw without having the opportunity to get set.

I do agree with Lu that Williams seems like a better fit for what Enos seems to be looking to do offensively. However Enos is so multiple and we kept things fairly conservative yesterday so that it isn’t all that clear yet what Enos plans to do here. At Arkansas they would look completely different week to week particularly when things weren’t going well towards the end. Williams may be closer to Brandon’s allen’s skill set but that doesn’t mean that Enos wants to run what he ran at Arkansas with Allen under Bielema who has his own philosophy Enos was tasked with implementing.

Nothing too surprising from the offensive skill guys. Osborn seems really solid fundamentally and will be a dependable safety blanket. I would like to see more Pope.

I was expecting the worst from the O line and they were better than I feared. I think Campbell and Hillary can be serviceable for us. I don’t think Scaife is an LT and I expect more shuffling before August 24th, for better or worse.

Our first team defense will be good. We are just incredibly thin everywhere on that side of the ball. We have plenty of young guys coming in but not many that will be ready day one.
DCH, you pretty much nailed it. But I’m still siding with Perry at a slim advantage. But you’re right on the money about the OL. I was pleasantly surprised by the serviceable play of the OL as well. They opened a few nice holes. The only thing is against who is the question. I know they struggled against the first team but played well against subs. So we have to take it all in with a grain of salt.
 

kgranger17

Data Driven
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
708
So now everyone is a Tate naysayer. L to the O to the L.

I still think he might be our best game manager, but he won’t start if we’re looking to throw for 3000+ yards.
 
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