Learning from your surroundings

[LuCane]

In the midst of all of this Mario Cristobal talk, I've noted an interesting issue. In the past, we've discussed how coaching trees, relationships and interactions are critically important. But, their relevance is the key. If a QB coach is exposed to a great offensive coordinator, that's a plus. However, how much does that QB coach absorb? To what degree is that coach given responsibilities that allow him to apply what he is learning or has learned? In the Cristobal case, he's an OL coach with recruiting and organizational responsibilities. What translates?

When people talk about "Mario Cristobal learning under Nick Saban," I immediately wonder what exactly he has learned. Some people who have coached there or been related to the program feel Cristobal has "learned a lot." But, is it relevant? Alabama is not Miami in very, very many ways. Different resources. Different aim. Different style. Different competitive advantages to leverage.

The relevant question the committee or any decision-maker should be asking is fairly straightforward: What did you learn in your time at _______ and how is that applicable here? Then, one can ask "how is this situation different?" What would you do to bridge the gap(s)?

All in all, this goes beyond Mario Cristobal. Most people are sarcastically attacking "fit" comments. As it relates to using "fit" as the excuse for failure, I totally get it. To me, though, completely disregarding "fit" is as flawed as using it as an excuse for failure. For Miami, "fit" just means who's best positioned to leverage our competitive advantages.

The fit we need is a badass, technical coach or someone who brings a plan and package that leverage our strengths. Access to [the very best] talent is our unique competitive advantage. The primary non-technical strength I can see leverage that advantage is from someone who is able to evaluate talent better than others. That's why Butch is someone I support. He isn't the only one, as there are obviously more technical guys who may or may not be available.

The point here is I think it'd be interesting to discuss the concept that: "X" coach who has been exposed to "Y" (awesome coach) isn't necessarily meaningful to what we need.

Dig into the **** details, please.

 

[prinmemo]

Good post. The important thing is to be specific about what a candidate brings and how what he brings enhances our competitive advantages and improve or deal with our main weaknesses. Instead, many posters just make general statements and do not connect it to the job of a HC at Miami.

What exactly has Mario learned from Saban that 1) enhances our competitive advantages and 2) improve or deal with our main weaknesses?

 

[Tad Footeball]

Solid take. In the case of Cristobal wouldn't it be equally or even more important to discuss what he's "learned" from one Lane Kiffin- his direct superior. This little narrative about Cristobal somehow being Saban's little prodigy is almost as flawed as people somehow disregarding that not only is he below Lane Kiffin in the Bama power structure but also probably has more day to day "learning" exposure to Kiffin than Saban. Do you really think Saban gives a rat's *** about taking ANY time to specifically expose his freakin' OL corch to the overall workings of Bama? People just want soooooo hard to believe this is some sort of mentorship going on with our little Mario and they have absolutely no proof that is even remotely true.

 

[WR Cane]

tHE only REASON sATAN TOOK cHRISSYBALLS FROM aL WAS FOR RECRUITING PURPOSES ONLY. Ooops! There were many other quality OL coaches Satan could've poached from other schools.

 

[CanesAreAble]

I'm sure Mario has picked up some of the managerial aspects of being a head coach, e.g. practice structure, fitness goals, day-to-day scheduling, etc... That said, it doesn't mean he's developed Saban's eye for evaluating talent or assembling a balanced coaching staff. Since Mario offers no X's & O's advantage, his CEO skills need to be top-notch, and there's zero evidence they are. His tenure at FIU doesn't move the needle for me.

 

[LuCane]

Solid take. In the case of Cristobal wouldn't it be equally or even more important to discuss what he's "learned" from one Lane Kiffin- his direct superior. This little narrative about Cristobal somehow being Saban's little prodigy is almost as flawed as people somehow disregarding that not only is he below Lane Kiffin in the Bama power structure but also probably has more day to day "learning" exposure to Kiffin than Saban. Do you really think Saban gives a rat's *** about taking ANY time to specifically expose his freakin' OL corch to the overall workings of Bama? People just want soooooo hard to believe this is some sort of mentorship going on with our little Mario and they have absolutely no proof that is even remotely true.

That revolves around my point: I'm not sure he's there to learn from Lane Kiffin. From the little I know, he's there to learn more about organizational aspects than he is to contribute to Xs and Os.

Then, when you get to your other point (addressing the narrative that Cristobal is Saban's little prodigy), would those things be relevant here?

 

[ScubaCane]

Miami has to get this hire right or it could truly be over for this program. I'm not saying they will disband the program, but what little relevance we still have will be gone forever. To me, you do not put that huge burden into the hands of a guy who is an OL coach and was fired from his one HC job. It would be an absolute disaster of a hire, I have no doubt.

 

[Tad Footeball]

Solid take. In the case of Cristobal wouldn't it be equally or even more important to discuss what he's "learned" from one Lane Kiffin- his direct superior. This little narrative about Cristobal somehow being Saban's little prodigy is almost as flawed as people somehow disregarding that not only is he below Lane Kiffin in the Bama power structure but also probably has more day to day "learning" exposure to Kiffin than Saban. Do you really think Saban gives a rat's *** about taking ANY time to specifically expose his freakin' OL corch to the overall workings of Bama? People just want soooooo hard to believe this is some sort of mentorship going on with our little Mario and they have absolutely no proof that is even remotely true.

That revolves around my point: I'm not sure he's there to learn from Lane Kiffin. From the little I know, he's there to learn more about organizational aspects than he is to contribute to Xs and Os.

Then, when you get to your other point (addressing the narrative that Cristobal is Saban's little prodigy), would those things be relevant here?

I thought he was there to act as a recruiter. We just assume that there's "big picture" learning going on without having one iota of how Saban actually interacts with his underlings.

My comment regarding Monte's son goes back to the "learning by osmosis and proximity" argument people make for Mario. My assertion was that if we're going down that road then we have to make an equal case that Kiffin may be just as much the mentor in our little scenario as Mario probably spends an equal or more amount of time with him than Saban.

 

[JerseyCanes]

Herman's background stood out to me.

Leadership
Communication
Development
Winning

He extolled all those traits.

Now I can comment on his recruiting because this is his 1st year but he has gotten verbals from a 5 star or 2..

I personally wouldn't think it would be that long before he would win over So.Florida with the excitement and with the aforementioned qualities he already has shown.

JC

 

[LuCane]

Herman's background stood out to me.

Leadership
Communication
Development
Winning

He extolled all those traits.

Now I can comment on his recruiting because this is his 1st year but he has gotten verbals form a 5 star or 2..

I personally wouldn't think it would be that long before he would win over So.Florida with the excitement and with the aforementioned qualities he already has shown.

JC

Of the more realistic candidates, judging from the outside, he's a clearcut 1b for me. It simply depends on plan.

 

[ball915]

I'm sure Mario has picked up some of the managerial aspects of being a head coach, e.g. practice structure, fitness goals, day-to-day scheduling, etc... That said, it doesn't mean he's developed Saban's eye for evaluating talent or assembling a balanced coaching staff. Since Mario offers no X's & O's advantage, his CEO skills need to be top-notch, and there's zero evidence they are. His tenure at FIU doesn't move the needle for me.

your last line is the exact point of the OP. his record at FIU isn't flattering and the entire question is if given a new opportunity what has he learned "from the best" to change that record

 

[JerseyCanes]

Herman's background stood out to me.

Leadership
Communication
Development
Winning

He extolled all those traits.

Now I can comment on his recruiting because this is his 1st year but he has gotten verbals form a 5 star or 2..

I personally wouldn't think it would be that long before he would win over So.Florida with the excitement and with the aforementioned qualities he already has shown.

JC

Of the more realistic candidates, judging from the outside, he's a clearcut 1b for me. It simply depends on plan.

Butch or Herman is my Choices also and every day they flip from 1a to 1b

I've never seen 2 candidates seem so different yet both have qualities that is needed for UM right now... fascinating really..

JC

 

[Canesfan1899]

I don't believe Mario can learn enough to make me forget his tenure at FIU, and then his short stop at Miami before leaving for Bammer.

 

[unionandsixth]

Great post. It's an old saw that just because you know your subject matter doesn't mean you know the subject matter of other professions. To my experience, there's a corollary: just because you know your subject matter doesn't mean you know how to make decisions when applying that subject matter to real-life problems. Just because he's learned something in Tuscaloosa doesn't mean he can apply it here in the same way or at all, etc., etc.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Lu, I'd suggest that some of the power decision makers are intuitively - already doing so.

We hear that some 40 coaching candidates will be submitted to UM by Kornhole, many to be tossed out, and of those considered, THEY will be INTERVIEWED.

I have a precision scale - it comes with a small polished weight for the purpose of calibration - a polished standard.

I'd venture to say the interviews already have started, when Butch was spotted on or around 10-29-15 in Pembroke Gardens at Brimestone for lunch, in dress shirt and tie, and later got into a black Mercedes S550 with a UM tag - a description that fits DiMare.

Same day, in the evening, Butch was spotted having drinks with Carlos Migoya, who when asked, said they were "old friends."

When you say, "The fit we need is a badass, technical coach, or someone who brings a plan and package that leverages out strengths . . . someone who is able to evaluate better than others."

I would suggest that like my "standard," Butch is the "standard" by which all 40 candidates will be measured - checklist by checklist, box by box.

Then we have Frenk, before he assumed his duties on a visit to UM, being introduced to Butch Davis in the company of Stu Miller, and we've all seen the photo of Frenk, Miller, and our own hero wearing a very good looking "Bring Back Butch." Which Miller had to explain to Frenk. So even Frenk had his own unique introduction to Butch Davis, who he is, who he was, and his relation to UM and to the Miller family.

I think all candidates that meet their initial criteria will get their interviews, and a fair hearing.

But of all likely candidates, they'll be compared against the standard - Butch Davis.

No one will meet all the criteria you mentioned - like Butch Davis.

 

[User-4525]

Great post. Alabama has one of the largest football staffs in the country. At Bama, there are so many guys that evaluate the top 3000 players in the country from California to Florida. Then, they nod off the guys that need to go to camp for more evaluation (mostly all players have to go to Bama camp to get offered because of the leverage Bama has - see Calvin Ridley, SBB, Amari) or offer the exceptional few like fournette. Furthermore, Nick Saban and Lane kiffin are evaluating a lot of these kids and are more than likely telling Mario which guys they want. So, in a densely talented area such as Miami, how is taking a guy who's primary function is sell - not evaluate - going to immensely help us? Yes, we've missed out of the top guys such as Dalvin cook, Rudolph, etc. But even when we are guns blazing we will never get 100% of the top guys. We will get a larger portion....but never all of them. The thing that separates Butch Davis from Mario (when we are talking about recruiting only) is his ability to evaluate which south Florida kids are being undervalued and underranked and quickly offer them. Furthermore, Butch has done this at a national level - not just Florida. Lastly, I believe Mario could be influenced by coaches into offering highly ranked kids who are overrated.



and this is even before we get into his coaching deficiencies

 

[Cane Dynasty]

The elephant in the room is that Mario is an idiot. He is not a smart guy. 99% of successful football coaches are very smart individuals. They might not always come across as such but you can not be successful as a HC without being incredibly intelligent.

Mario is an idiot. His tenure at FIU both on the field and off the field should tell you everything you need to know about him. He could spend the next 4 years bouncing around the premier NFL programs and still be a corch.

He is a corch by nature. It's genetic. It can't be coached away. Once a corch always a corch.

 

[Tad Footeball]

The elephant in the room is that Mario is an idiot. He is not a smart guy. 99% of successful football coaches are very smart individuals. They might not always come across as such but you can not be successful as a HC without being incredibly intelligent.

Mario is an idiot. His tenure at FIU both on the field and off the field should tell you everything you need to know about him. He could spend the next 4 years bouncing around the premier NFL programs and still be a corch.

He is a corch by nature. It's genetic. It can't be coached away. Once a corch always a corch.

Everyone says he's the Cuban Al. He's actually the Cuban Ed Orgeron. Supposed master recruiter, excellent at cultivating media relationships but at the end of the day simply not big time program head coaching material (Ed's stint as interim at USC is meaningless when compared to his overall HC'ing body of work). These type of guys end up HAVING to try to supplement their coaching abilities with recruiting efforts because they simply don't have strong enough x's and o's acumen combined with managerial skills to be anything more than position corches at high level schools.

 

[Salt]

Solid take. In the case of Cristobal wouldn't it be equally or even more important to discuss what he's "learned" from one Lane Kiffin- his direct superior. This little narrative about Cristobal somehow being Saban's little prodigy is almost as flawed as people somehow disregarding that not only is he below Lane Kiffin in the Bama power structure but also probably has more day to day "learning" exposure to Kiffin than Saban. Do you really think Saban gives a rat's *** about taking ANY time to specifically expose his freakin' OL corch to the overall workings of Bama? People just want soooooo hard to believe this is some sort of mentorship going on with our little Mario and they have absolutely no proof that is even remotely true.

That revolves around my point: I'm not sure he's there to learn from Lane Kiffin. From the little I know, he's there to learn more about organizational aspects than he is to contribute to Xs and Os.
Then, when you get to your other point (addressing the narrative that Cristobal is Saban's little prodigy), would those things be relevant here?

I thought Golden, despite his obvious coaching flaws, was a good organizational guy. I think he could have learned that here too, but I would bet the pull of at least double salary was also a determining factor in him going to Bama.

 

[Klamalama]

The elephant in the room is that Mario is an idiot. He is not a smart guy. 99% of successful football coaches are very smart individuals. They might not always come across as such but you can not be successful as a HC without being incredibly intelligent.

Mario is an idiot. His tenure at FIU both on the field and off the field should tell you everything you need to know about him. He could spend the next 4 years bouncing around the premier NFL programs and still be a corch.

He is a corch by nature. It's genetic. It can't be coached away. Once a corch always a corch.

The TRAITOR's personal handbook.