Can an X's & O's Guy explain to me

[TheZacMamba]

Why our run game has been so inconsistent? Throughout this year especially, the run game has been boom or bust. I know everyone is going to say we havent recruited great lineman but I dont think have recruited terrible lineman and I'm sure there are schools with worse lineman who are more consistent in the run. Everytime i saw us in 3rd & short situations, I (and I'm sure everyone here) knew we'd be stopped. I know Justice vastly improved pass blocking by why was run blocking so difficult?

I like to think I have pretty decent football knowledge but I just dont get why we've been so inconsistent with having good backs and a serviceable enough line

 

[edge]

Would like to see the percentage in 3rd and short. Way more then not, Cam would get the first down. It’s was getting stuffed on 1st and 2nd that was the real problem.

 

[skyman]

We run majority inside zone, Scaife was really bad from first snap of season on, Gaynor thought he was playing fullback he was in backfield soo much and soo quick (Many teams ran 3 man line against us with someone directly over center, every time they did it atleast until midseason Manny said he was surprised and never saw that on film from them, lol.. Every team saw Gaynor was weak point and made him permanent fullback), LG was a revolving door, we had 3 center types who are weak at point of attack in our interior majority of season, most of our run game wheels got greased by threat of run from King or him keeping the ball..

You better have some war daddies take some positions if you want to see some change

 

[TheZacMamba]

We run majority inside zone, Scaife was really bad from first snap of season on, Gaynor thought he was playing fullback he was in backfield soo much and soo quick (Many teams ran 3 man line against us with someone directly over center, every time they did it atleast until midseason Manny said he was surprised and never saw that on film from them, lol.. Every team saw Gaynor was weak point and made him permanent fullback), LG was a revolving door, we had 3 center types who are weak at point of attack in our interior majority of season, most of our run game wheels got greased by threat of run from King or him keeping the ball..

You better have some war daddies take some positions if you want to see some change

ahh ok. so i guess it is the actual line and not scheme. I'll admit I dont pay much attention to oline during plays.

 

[HighSeas]

• 8-man single-high boxes to account for King, with a lack of respect for perimeter pass game
• Limited variety of run schemes (ties into next point)
• Poor execution - 4th&1 where Chaney was stuffed vs UNC is an example where they called Duo and the G didn't work up to the LB. Even when the OL knows their assignment there are weak links like Clark and Gaynor who lack the physical traits to execute routine blocks
• Backs missing reads, not using efficient footwork, not making guys miss in space

With the short-yardage issues I'd like to see more G-lead where the playside guard pulls, with Chaney as the back. Another thing that can help the run game is pre-snap motion to ***** up run fits and create numbers advantages. Other teams do this to us but it's hard to incorporate when you're playing at breakneck tempo all the time.

Also keep in mind that one thing Lashlee does well is add constraints to his common run calls, like the leak/rail routes to RBs and TEs that went for TDs. If defenses overcommit to stop the run and give up those plays it makes the run game look bad when it's actually successful by creating those opportunities. It would also help to have WRs who can exploit 1on1s like Dyami Brown did to Ivey in the UNC game, because again you're taking advantage of a defense selling out to stop the run. Enough plays like that and you force a defense back to 2-high safeties and you can re-establish the run.

 

[CanesAreAble]

We run majority inside zone, Scaife was really bad from first snap of season on, Gaynor thought he was playing fullback he was in backfield soo much and soo quick (Many teams ran 3 man line against us with someone directly over center, every time they did it atleast until midseason Manny said he was surprised and never saw that on film from them, lol.. Every team saw Gaynor was weak point and made him permanent fullback), LG was a revolving door, we had 3 center types who are weak at point of attack in our interior majority of season, most of our run game wheels got greased by threat of run from King or him keeping the ball..

You better have some war daddies take some positions if you want to see some change

There were multiple points in the season when we had defenses scrambling to get set because of tempo, and they still blew interior run plays with guys running off the field.

Interior line was a huge liability in the run game.

 

[TheZacMamba]

• 8-man single-high boxes to account for King, with a lack of respect for perimeter pass game
• Limited variety of run schemes (ties into next point)
• Poor execution - 4th&1 where Chaney was stuffed vs UNC is an example where they called Duo and the G didn't work up to the LB. Even when the OL knows their assignment there are weak links like Clark and Gaynor who lack the physical traits to execute routine blocks
• Backs missing reads, not using efficient footwork, not making guys miss in space

With the short-yardage issues I'd like to see more G-lead where the playside guard pulls, with Chaney as the back. Another thing that can help the run game is pre-snap motion to ***** up run fits and create numbers advantages. Other teams do this to us but it's hard to incorporate when you're playing at breakneck tempo all the time.

Also keep in mind that one thing Lashlee does well is add constraints to his common run calls, like the leak/rail routes to RBs and TEs that went for TDs. If defenses overcommit to stop the run and give up those plays it makes the run game look bad when it's actually successful by creating those opportunities. It would also help to have WRs who can exploit 1on1s like Dyami Brown did to Ivey in the UNC game, because again you're taking advantage of a defense selling out to stop the run. Enough plays like that and you force a defense back to 2-high safeties and you can re-establish the run.

great breakdown

 

[Canes Legacy]

• 8-man single-high boxes to account for King, with a lack of respect for perimeter pass game
• Limited variety of run schemes (ties into next point)
• Poor execution - 4th&1 where Chaney was stuffed vs UNC is an example where they called Duo and the G didn't work up to the LB. Even when the OL knows their assignment there are weak links like Clark and Gaynor who lack the physical traits to execute routine blocks
• Backs missing reads, not using efficient footwork, not making guys miss in space

With the short-yardage issues I'd like to see more G-lead where the playside guard pulls, with Chaney as the back. Another thing that can help the run game is pre-snap motion to ***** up run fits and create numbers advantages. Other teams do this to us but it's hard to incorporate when you're playing at breakneck tempo all the time.

Also keep in mind that one thing Lashlee does well is add constraints to his common run calls, like the leak/rail routes to RBs and TEs that went for TDs. If defenses overcommit to stop the run and give up those plays it makes the run game look bad when it's actually successful by creating those opportunities. It would also help to have WRs who can exploit 1on1s like Dyami Brown did to Ivey in the UNC game, because again you're taking advantage of a defense selling out to stop the run. Enough plays like that and you force a defense back to 2-high safeties and you can re-establish the run.

^ This pretty much sums it up.

Need smarter and stronger OL and a threat on the outside and things will start to open up (Easier said than done).

 

[Billy D Williams]

The OL couldn't push a broken down Prius out of the road and the passing game was no threat against real teams.

 

[PredaCane]

A few reasons. First, we don't nearly enough push up front, run play calling has been kinda predictable and run plays are developing too slowly.

 

[kyle_schick]

• 8-man single-high boxes to account for King, with a lack of respect for perimeter pass game
• Limited variety of run schemes (ties into next point)
• Poor execution - 4th&1 where Chaney was stuffed vs UNC is an example where they called Duo and the G didn't work up to the LB. Even when the OL knows their assignment there are weak links like Clark and Gaynor who lack the physical traits to execute routine blocks
• Backs missing reads, not using efficient footwork, not making guys miss in space

With the short-yardage issues I'd like to see more G-lead where the playside guard pulls, with Chaney as the back. Another thing that can help the run game is pre-snap motion to ***** up run fits and create numbers advantages. Other teams do this to us but it's hard to incorporate when you're playing at breakneck tempo all the time.

Also keep in mind that one thing Lashlee does well is add constraints to his common run calls, like the leak/rail routes to RBs and TEs that went for TDs. If defenses overcommit to stop the run and give up those plays it makes the run game look bad when it's actually successful by creating those opportunities. It would also help to have WRs who can exploit 1on1s like Dyami Brown did to Ivey in the UNC game, because again you're taking advantage of a defense selling out to stop the run. Enough plays like that and you force a defense back to 2-high safeties and you can re-establish the run.

EXACTLY THIS. Which leads to one larger point:

Knowing our team has deficiencies and not scheming around it with better play calling.

 

[Brains]

• 8-man single-high boxes to account for King, with a lack of respect for perimeter pass game
• Limited variety of run schemes (ties into next point)
• Poor execution - 4th&1 where Chaney was stuffed vs UNC is an example where they called Duo and the G didn't work up to the LB. Even when the OL knows their assignment there are weak links like Clark and Gaynor who lack the physical traits to execute routine blocks
• Backs missing reads, not using efficient footwork, not making guys miss in space

With the short-yardage issues I'd like to see more G-lead where the playside guard pulls, with Chaney as the back. Another thing that can help the run game is pre-snap motion to ***** up run fits and create numbers advantages. Other teams do this to us but it's hard to incorporate when you're playing at breakneck tempo all the time.

Also keep in mind that one thing Lashlee does well is add constraints to his common run calls, like the leak/rail routes to RBs and TEs that went for TDs. If defenses overcommit to stop the run and give up those plays it makes the run game look bad when it's actually successful by creating those opportunities. It would also help to have WRs who can exploit 1on1s like Dyami Brown did to Ivey in the UNC game, because again you're taking advantage of a defense selling out to stop the run. Enough plays like that and you force a defense back to 2-high safeties and you can re-establish the run.

I have zero disagreements.

 

[LuCane]

• 8-man single-high boxes to account for King, with a lack of respect for perimeter pass game
• Limited variety of run schemes (ties into next point)
• Poor execution - 4th&1 where Chaney was stuffed vs UNC is an example where they called Duo and the G didn't work up to the LB. Even when the OL knows their assignment there are weak links like Clark and Gaynor who lack the physical traits to execute routine blocks
• Backs missing reads, not using efficient footwork, not making guys miss in space

With the short-yardage issues I'd like to see more G-lead where the playside guard pulls, with Chaney as the back. Another thing that can help the run game is pre-snap motion to ***** up run fits and create numbers advantages. Other teams do this to us but it's hard to incorporate when you're playing at breakneck tempo all the time.

Also keep in mind that one thing Lashlee does well is add constraints to his common run calls, like the leak/rail routes to RBs and TEs that went for TDs. If defenses overcommit to stop the run and give up those plays it makes the run game look bad when it's actually successful by creating those opportunities. It would also help to have WRs who can exploit 1on1s like Dyami Brown did to Ivey in the UNC game, because again you're taking advantage of a defense selling out to stop the run. Enough plays like that and you force a defense back to 2-high safeties and you can re-establish the run.

This is good stuff. I'd only add, as a down the list contributor, our RBs were sometimes robotic to, through, and bouncing off the design. You watch other teams get blown up in IZ and sometimes RBs can still make something happen. Part of it may be inexperience. Another part is vision still developing.

 

[Vizslacane]

• 8-man single-high boxes to account for King, with a lack of respect for perimeter pass game
• Limited variety of run schemes (ties into next point)
• Poor execution - 4th&1 where Chaney was stuffed vs UNC is an example where they called Duo and the G didn't work up to the LB. Even when the OL knows their assignment there are weak links like Clark and Gaynor who lack the physical traits to execute routine blocks
• Backs missing reads, not using efficient footwork, not making guys miss in space

With the short-yardage issues I'd like to see more G-lead where the playside guard pulls, with Chaney as the back. Another thing that can help the run game is pre-snap motion to ***** up run fits and create numbers advantages. Other teams do this to us but it's hard to incorporate when you're playing at breakneck tempo all the time.

Also keep in mind that one thing Lashlee does well is add constraints to his common run calls, like the leak/rail routes to RBs and TEs that went for TDs. If defenses overcommit to stop the run and give up those plays it makes the run game look bad when it's actually successful by creating those opportunities. It would also help to have WRs who can exploit 1on1s like Dyami Brown did to Ivey in the UNC game, because again you're taking advantage of a defense selling out to stop the run. Enough plays like that and you force a defense back to 2-high safeties and you can re-establish the run.

I was going to say because the OL more often than not gets pushed back like they're not even there or the RB tackles himself. I'm glad I kept that to myself, because Mr. HighSeas said it much better.

 

[Arehel]

This is good stuff. I'd only add, as a down the list contributor, our RBs were sometimes robotic to, through, and bouncing off the design. You watch other teams get blown up in IZ and sometimes RBs can still make something happen. Part of it may be inexperience. Another part is vision still developing.

Little bit of both. That's the difference between Chaney, he can bounce it, and Harris, who got a good jump cut, but otherwise that's it, in my opinion.

But I'll say more often then not we saw just complete missed assignment on short yardage situation. Free tacklers are a killer no matter how good your TB is, he has to bounce it out then get chased then has to make an outside guy miss (which is hard to do, cause if you slow down you're caught from behind).

 

[HighSeas]

This is good stuff. I'd only add, as a down the list contributor, our RBs were sometimes robotic to, through, and bouncing off the design. You watch other teams get blown up in IZ and sometimes RBs can still make something happen. Part of it may be inexperience. Another part is vision still developing.

Yeah I mentioned backs missing reads in there. An example of what you're saying would be on that same 4th down play vs UNC that I mentioned, Chaney ran directly into the LB when he had space to bounce it wide to the left. That's an example of following the design of the play robotically rather than reading your blocks/leverage and finding another solution.

Most fans think the RB position is an easy position where you just recruit the best athletes but there are a lot of nuances to the position. I really wanted Henry Parrish in the class as a back who can run zone effectively with good footwork, anticipation and contact balance. That was a minority opinion on here which surprised me.

 

[Ashevegas Cane]

Reading High Seas breakdown makes me understand the interest in Rambo. Some one has to threaten and occasionally win outside and take the top off. If not Rambo someone else please.
That happens and **** gets different quickly.

 

[Ethnicsands]

We run majority inside zone, Scaife was really bad from first snap of season on, Gaynor thought he was playing fullback he was in backfield soo much and soo quick (Many teams ran 3 man line against us with someone directly over center, every time they did it atleast until midseason Manny said he was surprised and never saw that on film from them, lol.. Every team saw Gaynor was weak point and made him permanent fullback), LG was a revolving door, we had 3 center types who are weak at point of attack in our interior majority of season, most of our run game wheels got greased by threat of run from King or him keeping the ball..

You better have some war daddies take some positions if you want to see some change

All you need to know about manny. half assing it. show me what they did against others. No thought as to what he’d do against us if he were their DC.

 

[Calvin]

Why our run game has been so inconsistent? Throughout this year especially, the run game has been boom or bust. I know everyone is going to say we havent recruited great lineman but I dont think have recruited terrible lineman and I'm sure there are schools with worse lineman who are more consistent in the run. Everytime i saw us in 3rd & short situations, I (and I'm sure everyone here) knew we'd be stopped. I know Justice vastly improved pass blocking by why was run blocking so difficult?

I like to think I have pretty decent football knowledge but I just dont get why we've been so inconsistent with having good backs and a serviceable enough line

Plain and simple, rhett lashlee becomes a moron in short yardage situations, 1st he goes to an obvious running formation far to often in those situations: ADVANTAGE=defense . He acts and calls short yardage plays as if we are already some established powerhouse running team. He far to often takes the threat of the pass away so a most defenses have to do is crash down.

Next, and I'll continue to point this out, especially to the clowns who consistently luv to disrespect some of the Canes who helped to make UM what its known for. But almost all our best running teams from the 80's til now, who was the o-line coach. When he came back for his 2nd stint one of the first things I said was, watch how our explosive running plays start coming back, the one thing coach kehoe definitely was good at was understanding how to get his guards to quick seal and quick trap blocks, whereas we got alot of o-line teachers trying to coach guys to be all maulers, coach kehoe coached to the strength of his players.

That's why he was able to start young guys early and often that were effective as well. That read option crap tends to make for alot of inconsistencies in the running game, which is why I'm not a spread offense type of guy myself, seams to make offenses become soft.

This OC rhett lashlee, he be on that good stuff on many series, he be calling alot of plays ***-backwards. Case in point, probably the best widereceiver screen we called an executed all year was our last offensive play of the season in the bowl game, problem was, he called it on 4th down, we need 10yrds to get a 1st down and this **** calling a pass play to be completed that far behind the sticks, even if it worked it was still a dumb-*** call. It's **** like that he been doing all season, which is why he still needs to be under a heavy handed HC, and diaz ain't it at this stage and maybe never if he keeps sitting back.

Coach kehoe understood Miami style football, and knew how to help deliver explosive plays in the run-game, after kehoe, our running game continues to look stale ASF!

 

[canesupremacy]

I cam here thinking I could get tic tac toe pointers. I will exit now